Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

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evildaughter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:00 am

Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by evildaughter » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:03 pm

This issues has been bothering me for months now, forcing me to find continuous workarounds.

Quite often during playback of a project I will get these very annoying clicks and pops. They seem to come out of nowhere, and apparently only when playing back tracks containing audio files rather than tracks with MIDI instruments. The main issue is that these glitches will carry on in the exported audio file. I triple checked and the clicks are not in the original recording of the audio files, and the issue occurs on multiple projects containing audio tracks.

I'm on a Razer Blade 15, Live 10.0.5, and a MOTU Ultralite MK4 set at 44.1 kHz, 512 buffer size (the issue appears also at other buffer sizes).

Thanks in advance to anyone who can contribute on this.

manasseh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:15 pm

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by manasseh » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:35 am

I've also been having this and submitted a bug report with an attached video reproduction.
Apparently the glitch come out in the exported rendering.
Live 10.1b13
Windows 10 build 1809
RME Babyface Pro

jestermgee
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Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by jestermgee » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:25 pm

For those of us who don't know, what are the specs of this "Razor Blade"?

- Does your system run from an SSD?
- How many tracks in total do you have?
- How many audio tracks?
- What device is playing the audio (Sampler)? Have you made sure they load the audio to RAM?
- What is the overall CPU load in Live?
- Is your audio interface connected direct to a USB port or to a Hub?
- Have you tried connecting the interface to a different USB?

oratowsky
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Location: la

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by oratowsky » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:19 pm

evildaughter,

Does the issue occur on a different audio interface or playback from the laptop headphone output?

Because I believe the issue might be with your ultralite mk4.

I've been through 2 of them in the last year and a half that all had the issues you describe and it's a widespread problem.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63375
http://mixbus.harrisonconsoles.com/foru ... -6090.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... e-mk4.html
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=65227

some of these issues seem to be be due to an issue with USB chipsets on new MacBook Pros, but as you can see plenty of Windows users have problems too.
I also had these issues on an older Mac.

Some people had success by not using the MOTU driver and using it in Class Compliant Mode.

Sometimes you can temporarily alleviate the issues by changing the sample rate to something else and then back to the original one.

Have you reached out to MOTU?
Does the issue occur on a different audio interface?

I've been going back and forth with MOTU on this for a year and a half. Basically, they told me it's the end of the line for support on it and I would have to wait for a fix from Apple. :(

manasseh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:15 pm

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by manasseh » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:27 pm

It's likely a live bug as I have an RME, so MOTU can be eliminated as the cause
Live 10.1b13
Windows 10 build 1809
RME Babyface Pro

oratowsky
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:09 am
Location: la

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by oratowsky » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:24 am

well I'm not sure but I was responding to OP

evildaughter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:00 am

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by evildaughter » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:14 am

Thanks everyone for the answers, I'm going to try and be a bit more specific to solve this.
jestermgee wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:25 pm
For those of us who don't know, what are the specs of this "Razor Blade"?

- Does your system run from an SSD?
- How many tracks in total do you have?
- How many audio tracks?
- What device is playing the audio (Sampler)? Have you made sure they load the audio to RAM?
- What is the overall CPU load in Live?
- Is your audio interface connected direct to a USB port or to a Hub?
- Have you tried connecting the interface to a different USB?
Both Live and my audio recordings are located on my internal SSD. The problem always occurs when there are audio files involved, whether there is one single audio track or 20 (also, it doesn't happen with sampler, only when I have an audio file directly placed in an audio track). My CPU load never goes over 30/40% (I got an i7-8750H 2.2GHz and 16 gigs of ram), and yes, I have tried various USB cables and ports, both on my powered USB hub and directly attached to my laptop.
oratowsky wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:19 pm
evildaughter,

Does the issue occur on a different audio interface or playback from the laptop headphone output?

Because I believe the issue might be with your ultralite mk4.

I've been through 2 of them in the last year and a half that all had the issues you describe and it's a widespread problem.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63375
http://mixbus.harrisonconsoles.com/foru ... -6090.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... e-mk4.html
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=65227

some of these issues seem to be be due to an issue with USB chipsets on new MacBook Pros, but as you can see plenty of Windows users have problems too.
I also had these issues on an older Mac.

Some people had success by not using the MOTU driver and using it in Class Compliant Mode.

Sometimes you can temporarily alleviate the issues by changing the sample rate to something else and then back to the original one.

Have you reached out to MOTU?
Does the issue occur on a different audio interface?

I've been going back and forth with MOTU on this for a year and a half. Basically, they told me it's the end of the line for support on it and I would have to wait for a fix from Apple. :(
I quickly read a couple of these threads and it seems indeed like a common issue. My thoughts are, though, wouldn't it glitch also in other programs if it was a hardware issue? Or is it maybe a driver issue, since Live forces me to use the ASIO driver released by MOTU? I'm not sure I can use the interface in class compliant mode, else I won't be able to properly route I/O (I might be wrong? Correct me on this.). The problem does not come up if I use Live just with my internal audio interface with ASIO4ALL drivers. I'm going to try my older Scarlett 2i2 interface to see if it does the same.

I'm also gonna try and post a video of the issue on youtube to show more clearly what type of glitches and behaviour I''m talking about.

UPDATE: I just tried with my Scarlett 2i2: unusable in ASIO4ALL, I installed the original ASIO driver from Scarlett's website and the glitches occur exactly in the same way as they do with the MOTU. Here is a video I just recorded with an example of the glitches https://youtu.be/fg9rvGVKiWI
Notice that the glitches are influenced by the starting position of the playback, and won't always occur.

MrSnoopyPants
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:03 am

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by MrSnoopyPants » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:53 pm

Some folks have found trying a different USB port on their computer has helped- specifically trying a USB 3.0 port as opposed to a USB 2.0
https://en.audiofanzine.com/focusrite/s ... noise.html

Also, and I dont know if this applies to your scenario, but Ive found that rebooting my machine daily (its Win 10) has eliminated popping. Its a desktop PC.

evildaughter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:00 am

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by evildaughter » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:07 pm

MrSnoopyPants wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:53 pm
Some folks have found trying a different USB port on their computer has helped- specifically trying a USB 3.0 port as opposed to a USB 2.0
https://en.audiofanzine.com/focusrite/s ... noise.html

Also, and I dont know if this applies to your scenario, but Ive found that rebooting my machine daily (its Win 10) has eliminated popping. Its a desktop PC.
I tried all of the ports, 3.0 and 2.0, nothing changes. And I completely turn off my computer every night before going to sleep.

I'm coming to the conclusion that there is something completely wrong in the way that Live and the MOTU drivers talk to each other. I'm going to try another DAW with the same audio recordings to see if I get the same error.

evildaughter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:00 am

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by evildaughter » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:23 am

Still haven't solved the problem, in case you were wondering.

Fanu
Posts: 388
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by Fanu » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:52 pm

I'd say this is likely some 3rd party plugin (e.g., recently my AOM Limiter's annual license had run out, and I was getting constant pops on the bounce because that's what the unlicensed demo does).

Your audio interface has nothing to do with the export: it's all math inside your computer (unless it's Universal Audio plugins, which is not the case here), so I def wouldn't blame the audio interface for the clicks in the exported file.

Have you tried disabling some 3rd party plugins to see if it helps?
Also, if you think it's your audio interface, try setting Live's output to your computer's built-in output and see how it goes.

Also, it's worth checking that 1) your audio interface, 2) Live and 3) your samples all use the same sample rate.
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evildaughter
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:00 am

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by evildaughter » Fri May 10, 2019 1:34 pm

Fanu wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:52 pm
I'd say this is likely some 3rd party plugin (e.g., recently my AOM Limiter's annual license had run out, and I was getting constant pops on the bounce because that's what the unlicensed demo does).

Your audio interface has nothing to do with the export: it's all math inside your computer (unless it's Universal Audio plugins, which is not the case here), so I def wouldn't blame the audio interface for the clicks in the exported file.

Have you tried disabling some 3rd party plugins to see if it helps?
Also, if you think it's your audio interface, try setting Live's output to your computer's built-in output and see how it goes.

Also, it's worth checking that 1) your audio interface, 2) Live and 3) your samples all use the same sample rate.
Thanks for the help. Unfortunately the issue still appears, for a bit I thought it was caused by the LexHall reverb plugin I was using on most of my projects, but even disabling it, or completely removing it from the effect chain, does nothing. I'm not using any other third party plugins right now. I checked the sample rate and it's all set on 44.1 kHz. It's not my interface either, since the same thing happens with my built-in audio interface (the crap Realtek that most windows laptop are shipped with, used both in ASIO and DirectSound modes).

TLW
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Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by TLW » Fri May 10, 2019 4:18 pm

If you’ve not already done so, running latencymon might flag up what the problem is.

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
Live 10.1 Suite, M4L, 2014/15 MacBook Pro 15.3” Retina i7, OS Mojave 10.14.5. RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

evildaughter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:00 am

Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by evildaughter » Sun May 12, 2019 3:28 pm

TLW wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:18 pm
If you’ve not already done so, running latencymon might flag up what the problem is.

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
Thank you for the recommendation, I ran the test and everything appears to be in order.

In the meantime, I figured something new: apparently the cause of the glitching is the Live Warp engine. The glitching on audio samples occurs as soon as the warp engine is activated for that specific sample (the little "Warp" button in the sample window is yellow), even before applying any actual warping.

My issue here is that Live is activating the Warp engine randomly on some samples, and it's not clear what criteria it's following to do that. I already went through the settings section regarding automatic warping, I always had it set to Unwarped One-Shots and to not warp long samples (I like to choose when and how to warp audio).
Even just a sample that I recorded directly in Live, either from an external input or through means of resampling.

I can say my problem is partially solved (as long as I keep the warp engine off), but it would be great to figure out why the glitching is occurring and why is Live even deliberately activating the warp engine on my samples.

[jur]
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Re: Weird audio glitches during playback/real time export

Post by [jur] » Sun May 12, 2019 4:53 pm

I didn't read everything, so sorry if I'm a bit off but did you try running Live without any other program running at the same time, especially your web browser.
I had a similar issue for a long time with my Motu Ultralite mk3 as reported by many users and known by Motu.
The issue magically disappeared when I stopped having Deezer.com always opened in a Safari tab...
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