Ableton Forum

H folks,

If i drag and drop a midi clip from session to arrangement, the automation envelopes that were written inside that clip get transferred to the track automation lanes.

But i'd kinda hope / expect that the aut. envs would stay inside the clip (as i prefer to edit envelopes in a clip, rather then on a track).

Soooooo .......... is there a way to achieve this? Perhaps it's optionally and i just need to know how / where to change it?

Thanks!.......... Mr D

That's the nature of automations in Session vs Arrangement.
What you want is to use modulations instead, but then don't forget that unlike automations they works relatively to the parameter's current value.

OK, thanks!

So am i right in thinking that as long as you set it up right, the end result is identical?

I mean using modulation automation instead of normal automation.

So as long as you start your automated parameter at it's most extreme setting, then automate (with modulation) from there, the result will be the same?

This is by design: in Session, automation is in clips.
In arrangement, it's on its own lanes (that you can open many by clicking the + sign).
And this has nothing to do with modulation per se.

Fanu wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:31 am

This is by design: in Session, automation is in clips.
In arrangement, it's on its own lanes (that you can open many by clicking the + sign).
And this has nothing to do with modulation per se.

Sure, but in arrangement you can also have modulation automation inside clips (so, not in lanes), right?

The point is, there might be times when you want to start composing in session, add some automation, but at some point you need the greater flexibility of moving those clips over into arrangement........

Mr D wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:58 pm

Fanu wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:31 am

This is by design: in Session, automation is in clips.
In arrangement, it's on its own lanes (that you can open many by clicking the + sign).
And this has nothing to do with modulation per se.

Sure, but in arrangement you can also have modulation automation inside clips (so, not in lanes), right?

You're right; but he asked about automation.

The "he" was me!

I think we're just getting hung up on words, i'm calling it "modulation automation" but you're just calling it "modulation"!

Mr D wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:53 pm

The "he" was me!

I think we're just getting hung up on words, i'm calling it "modulation automation" but you're just calling it "modulation"!

Automation and Modulation are two different things.

Answered a related Q here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=234216&sid=c3171951 ... d119cd6c38

My Live Basics video (link in sig) also shows and explains the difference.

Yes, i agree, automation and modulation automation are the same thing!

Mr D wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:14 pm

Yes, i agree, automation and modulation automation are the same thing!

I don't know who you're agreeing with.
There is no such thing as "modulation automation".
You have automation and modulation.

Manual p. 316.

Listen you idiot, you can have modulation that isn't automated, for example when you map a knob on your midi controller to knob on a plugin.

When you record that movement into your DAW, you're automating the modulation. I don't give a shit what it says in the manual, i know what is commonly meant by these terms in the world of music production. But i wish you luck in the future with your non-standard use of these words.

Please treat each other with respect, we ban people who can’t follow the community guidelines posted at the top of each forum. Thanks.

Yeah, frankly Fanu you got quite pedantic here and not helpful at all by being so pointy.
The point here was to explain or find a workaround for the OP, and it was already obvious that the OP knows the difference between automation and modulation before you chimed in.
So, period.
And as I said Mr D, you should use modulations lanes to achieve what you want when copying clips from Session to Arrangement.
Session Automations are only automatically copied over to Arrangement as automation lanes by recording a Session in Arrangement (hit the Global Record button; launch your clip(s) in Session). And, no need to insult other people back.

I learned a lot in this discussion. I was confused about the relationship between Session and Arrangement automation.

Too bad different color text or something was used in Session View's envelope drop downs, so you would know what will stay in the clip and what with go to the Automation lane.

It's confusing at first. But now it's a moot point because I have the knowledge!

Emphasis on or.
Literally trying to correct one's terminology so one can talk about the right, exact thing.
10.1 will actually bring a button to easily switch between these two: https://www.facebook.com/fanubreaks/vid ... 426196626/

Saying "modulation automation" is like saying "compressor limiter", and somebody will be asking you which one you mean.
I correct in the same way, helpfully, when people mix flipping "phase" with flipping "polarity" as well, for example, trying to underline the correct terms, or when they say the need to compress their song to make it loud (while they're limiting it).
Also, automation is what gets recorded; modulation does not get recorded.
I'm pointing out things that are literally in the user manual.
But I guess it makes me "a pedantic idiot".

Have a nice day, folks.