ipod

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
DJ Trocca
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina
Contact:

ipod

Post by DJ Trocca » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:51 pm

Have you tried to use an ipod as an external HD? Does it work fine with live?

I am thinking on buying a ipod to use it as an external hard drive and store muy music there and I am wondering if I can use it to play them with live. I don´t know if it is fast enough.

Thank You very much!
Mac Book Pro
OSX 10.6.X
RME - Fireface UCX
NI - Maschine
Akai APC40
http://www.facebook.com/marianotrocca

RePeter
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:42 pm

Post by RePeter » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:53 pm

not sure of the specifics, but i wouldnt trust it.
MBP 2.4 & a shit load of Faderfoxes!

zekrab
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:25 am
Location: France

Post by zekrab » Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:33 pm

What's the speed of an ipod HD ?
Dell inspiron 9100 P4 3,2Ghz, 512 Mo RAM, XP SP2, Echoindigo dj, Firewire 410, UC33e

Meffy
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:21 pm

Post by Meffy » Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:33 pm

I'd think an iPod would be a very expensive way of doing that. I haven't made the comparison but it seems to me that a plain old USB or Firewire external drive would cost far less, have a LOT more capacity, and be much faster.

If it's not hard to get external drives in Argentina, I'd recommend using one for storage. If you want to carry music with you, that's what iPod's best at.

My advice is based on educated guesses, not hard data -- I don't have any portable music devices. I have phonographic memory and can play back music in my head okay. (Can't substitute that for a USB hard drive though! :-D)

Best thing is if you can hear from someone who has actually tried this. That would beat my guesswork.

Meffy

The Mysterious Flying Pum
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:28 am
Location: Nice - France

Works very well

Post by The Mysterious Flying Pum » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:05 pm

Hi,
I have a 1st generation 10GB iPod and it works perfectly as an external drive. You can play live sets or samples directly from the pod without any problem and it is very responsive due to the firewire connection.
Cheers.
13" MacBook - 1Gb RAM/OSX10.4 - Live 6

smutek
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:30 pm
Location: Baltimore,United States

Post by smutek » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:23 pm

That's good to hear pum. I have a 20 gig 3rd gen iPod and have never used it for this purpose.

I know that people use them with traktor, but I have also heard from others that the hd is too slow to be an effective 2nd hd.

As for me, I don't use an external hd at this point, but when I do I will purchase a faster, dedicated unit and leave the iPod for what it does best, playing music, storing contact info, and transporting files to school.

tomperson
Posts: 1018
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
Location: MVD, Uruguay, South America
Contact:

Well

Post by tomperson » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:18 am

Well, traktor seems to be quite integrated with the iPod, it even reads iTunes playlists and such...so I guess it can't be that bad for that.

In fact, the guy that wrote the book "Laptop Music" seemed to love using an iPod as an external harddrive.

Anyone here who could give a hint regarding this? I'm buying an mp3 player myself pretty soon, and being able to use it as an external hard drive would be super-nice if it works reliably!!!

Saludos desde Montevideo!
Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now.

smutek
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:30 pm
Location: Baltimore,United States

Post by smutek » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:43 am

well, i just checked my ipod using live 5. the ipod shows in the live browser but none of the music does. this has something to do with the protection scheme apple uses to prevent people from unloading music from their ipod onto other peoples computers.

the music can be made visible with a program like ipod liberator, but i do not know if this would make tunes stored on the ipod available to live.

the ipod can, ofcourse, be used as a storage device and this would be the way to access music files for an application such as live. simply mount the ipod on the desktop, open it as you would any disk, and drag files over.


but the itunes library on an i pod and the hard disk usage of an ipod are two distinctly seperate things, files stored in this manner would not be available for playback on the ipod thus limiting it's use as a portable music player which is what the ipod is best suited for imho.

i am not sure how this works in traktor because, as I said, i've never used my ipod in this way. does traktor access the itunes library on the ipod or does the media need to be stored seperately?


ahh, i just don't know. but i think if you are able to access the itunes library on the ipod then it may be worthwhile, but if you need to set it up exactly as you would an external hd then I think it may be more worthwhile to just buy a faster, cheaper hd with more storage space.

i am interested to hear more about this.

AdamJay
Posts: 4757
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Indianapolis, USA

Post by AdamJay » Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:16 am

zekrab wrote:What's the speed of an ipod HD ?
4200rpm. not the fastest, but fast for a HD that is smaller than a 2.5" laptop hard disk.

tomperson
Posts: 1018
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
Location: MVD, Uruguay, South America
Contact:

Post by tomperson » Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:20 am

Native instruments page regarding iPod and Traktor.

"# Encoding CD's to MP3 using iTunes™ CDDB support. The information contained in the Music Library of iTunes™ 3 can be directly imported to the Track Collection of TRAKTOR DJ Studio via ID3v2.
# Mixing tracks from the iTunes™ library with TRAKTOR’s advanced mixing functions, such as automatic beat matching and looping."

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.p ... us&flash=0

It would seem that traktor can read the iTunes Library?

If anyone else could share their experiences...
Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now.

smutek
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:30 pm
Location: Baltimore,United States

Post by smutek » Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:44 am

Aye, but the thing is that the itunes library is no more than a collection of folders on your computers hard disk containing the mp3's.

The ipod, when used as a music player, stores the music in a way that makes it inaccessable. ie. if you load your music collection on your ipod in the normal fashion using itunes, then take your ipod to work and try to transfer your collection to your work computer you will not be able to do so.

the ipod is protected against this and the files simply are not accessable without hacking the ipod using 3rd party software.

all of the music is invisible so to speak.

on the other hand, if you just mount the ipod as an external hd and move all of your files onto it that way you will be able to transfer them back to any other computer and access them with any other computer.

BUT, you will not be able to listen to them on the ipod as they are not stored in the ipods "music playback section" for lack of a better term.

as I said above, I have a 20 gig ipod with 14 gigs of music on it and none of it is available to lives file browser. in order to make the same amount of music available to live as well as available to listen to on the ipod i would need a device with 28 gigs of storage capacity, 14 gigs for the ipods music library to listen to whle on the road or where-ever and 14 gigs for a duplicate library to play out at gigs.

the question is, regarding traktor, if the music is stored on the ipod in the "normal" way, using itunes, will this library be available to traktor or will it be invisible as is the case with ableton.

ni does not seem to address this on their site, they do say that using the ipod makes it easy to transfer files to another computer which seems to imply it is being used in hard disk mode and not in music player mode.

this may not be a big deal to some people but i think it is definitely worth while to get it cleared up.

tomperson
Posts: 1018
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
Location: MVD, Uruguay, South America
Contact:

Post by tomperson » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:01 am

Smutek, thanks for the reply, I got what you said on the first post, that's why I copied the part where Native Instruments "seemed to say" that Traktor reads from iTunes™ library...if it wasn't that way, it would seem kinda silly to advertise its integration with ipod. Maybe someone here has both an iPod and Traktor and can clear this point out.

And what about those simpler USB audio players (like http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846) has anyone tried to use them as external storage for audio files?

This particular model has 20MBps reading speed. Not much, I think. On the other hand, given the fact that it is memory based, it shouldn't have big latency, so the data stream should be quite stable...just guessing, anyway.
Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now.

smutek
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:30 pm
Location: Baltimore,United States

Post by smutek » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:04 am

tomperson wrote:Smutek, thanks for the reply, I got what you said on the first post, that's why I copied the part where Native Instruments "seemed to say" that Traktor reads from iTunes™ library...if it wasn't that way, it would seem kinda silly to advertise its integration with ipod. Maybe someone here has both an iPod and Traktor and can clear this point out.
I agree. It would seem silly to call it ipod integration if the only way to use the ipod is in hard disk mode.

I will download the demo of the latest version of traktor and get back to you.

tomperson
Posts: 1018
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
Location: MVD, Uruguay, South America
Contact:

Post by tomperson » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:09 am

Cool. You're the man! 8)
Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now.

Angstrom
Posts: 14664
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Post by Angstrom » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:14 am

I have an Archos gmini400 that I plan to use in this way for DJ type of sets where it is essentially chucking together big chunks

.. as all my bigger audio chunks/songs/drumtracks are on my gmini it seems pointless to duplicate and waste space on my laptop

to the point:

live5 caches all the mp3s locally as it decodes them so it should rely more on your laptop cache drive speed than the portable device speed (at least during playback)

Post Reply