Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
aklisiewicz
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:33 am

Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by aklisiewicz » Fri May 10, 2019 10:18 pm

IHere is a copy of the message I've sent today to Ableton. This is probably 5-th message regarding this same problem within last 3 years.
I'm pretty much helpless. I only hope that somebody else have had this problem, if not I think I need to switch to differen DAW.

I appreciate any input...
ART

Here is the video showing the problem. This happens to all kind of VST not only thin one (from my observation mostly ones that have some kind of long release, delay etc).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8omXmDWOHsQ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I reported this problem to you several times. So far got no help. Recently it became so bad that it simply makes impossible to use your program.

It is about stuck sound. I reported this issue with Live 8.
Just today I tried to do some work. I have sample on the midi track. When I play a key on the keyboard then remove my hand the sounds keep playing. It even plays when I turn off sampler. The only way to stop the sound is to click the Stop button or disable the whole VST in the track. This is not even external plugin it is your device !

I am sick and tired of dealing with the issues. I 'm about to switch to different DAW because Ableton sucks.

In last 2-3 years I changed my hardware, computer etc but the problem still happens.

I will not even mention other issues i.e. 3-5 crashes every week.

Worst of all you keep ifgoring issues and problems. I did not even get a response from you on this one, despite it has been about a week from my last request.
You keep sending me some FCKN automated messages which often have nothing to do with the issue and are generic. This is just unbelievable how your company went from being one of the best to worst. This is my last attempt to fix the problem and if you cannot handle that - GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK because your software cannot do what it promisses to do.

My symphaty to Ableton whent from 99% (when I purchased Live 3) to 1% today.
I reserved my time to do some work and I CANNOT DO FCKN NOTHING !!!
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

pottering
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by pottering » Sat May 11, 2019 12:57 am

When you zoom-in the Device Chain (you do that 2 times), the audio is clearly coming from the Chain in the top (the one that starts with "Ambient P..."), not the one you have selected ("3-2-Audio ...").

To the end of the video, the device you disable in the "3-2-Audio ..." Chain is not the one making sounds, in fact, that whole "3-2-Audio ..." Chain is disabled, you can see the Chain Activator is gray (also -40, not making much sound either way).

You never show what is in the "3-2-Audio ..." Chain, so it is impossible to tell what is causing the problem.

The way the audio bounces hints at a Delay with high feedback.

aklisiewicz
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by aklisiewicz » Sat May 11, 2019 3:41 am

Whatever you said is irrelevant.

I saved this same project under different name to do some more testing.
Removed this plugin and re-added it. It played fine from the keyboard (which was on track 10)
I decided to add another track (say track: 11) and record some midi (ddiferent instrument). When the clip on track 10 ended and I ctopped playing, I could still hear the sound from that track (track 10). This time there was no chains, just single device, no FX, nothing.

That is why I say your suggestions are irrelevant. This happens on random occassions on different devices (NI VSTs, sometimes Omnisphere, and others).
For that reason this problem does not seem to be related to the VST plugin. I have sent to Ableton numerous system reports, crash files etc and so far no fix.

The worst thing is , that once it starts happening the only cure is to force Live to close and reboot PC. THAT IS A NIGHTMARE
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

aklisiewicz
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:33 am

Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by aklisiewicz » Sat May 11, 2019 4:46 am

here is another example of Live issues. This time now playing keyboard but the midi clip.

https://www.youtube.com/upload
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

pottering
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by pottering » Sat May 11, 2019 5:00 am

Only thing I can think of is a MIDI Ctrl > 64 - Hold Pedal envelope set to more than 0 in the end of that Clip.

cotdagoo
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by cotdagoo » Sat May 11, 2019 7:34 pm

aklisiewicz wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:41 am
Whatever you said is irrelevant.
This is quite funny.. You can see the audio isn't coming from the chain you've selected and turn on/off quite clearly..

Audio is coming from your Ambient_Pad layer but you've got the 3-2-Audio layer selected in the chain.. so of course toggling it off/on does nothing.

Pretty quick to pass off someone's advice as irrelevant when asking for help..

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Fanu
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by Fanu » Sat May 11, 2019 7:47 pm

Hey man – you're not looking at the right chain in the video.
Sure enough when you turn off the rack, it'll turn off the top rack, too, which is playing the sound, and which you are not looking at.

And your second link just goes to Youtube upload page.

Going to need more info here – this really shows nothing useful to us that we could comment on :)
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TLW
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by TLW » Sun May 12, 2019 3:15 am

Possible causes of a hanging note off the top of my head.

A CC64 command as pottering has suggested.
A very long sustain setting in an amplitude envelope.
An envelope which triggers the note being played set to cycle continuously and never stop.
A delay with high feedback.
A reverb such as Eventide Black Hole with a “freeze” setting that’s switched on so the reverb never dies.
The end of the last note in the playing clip is after the “clip end” or a note is set to loop with the end of loop point positioned before the note ends, so a note off never gets sent until the clip is stopped.
A MIDI hardware controller misbehaving.
MIDI from another track unintentionally configured so it triggers the hanging track.
A misbehaving audio driver.
A bug in Live.
.....and at least a dozen more possibilities.

But until and unless we get to find out what’s going on in that Ambient Pad layer guessing is all that can be done.

As for killing the offending note if stopping the transport and all clips in session view doesn’t do the job am I right in thinking clicking on the cpu/audio system meter three times sends an “all notes off”? Not near DAW so I can’t check it myself.
Live 10.1 Suite, M4L, 2014/15 MacBook Pro 15.3” Retina i7, OS Mojave 10.14.5. RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

jestermgee
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by jestermgee » Sun May 12, 2019 7:12 am

Reluctant to assist because your attitude towards those trying to help has been sub par, but it seems the issue is probably your keyboard or the connections to your machine.

As most have pointed out, you are looking in the wrong areas in your video.

Here is a simple test you can do:

If you find you get notes sticking with a synth using your MIDI keyboard, switch to your computer keyboard in note mode and play on that. If the issue still persists then we have a live/synth issue to investigate, if the issue does not persist, the issue is not Live but your keyboard. Maybe there is something at fault and the note off message isn't always being transmitted or received.

Playing the blame game isn't going to help anything. Obviously the issue you have is not specifically a Live software issue or actual professionals round here would be kicking up a massive stink. I personally do not see this issue and if you have had this issue for a while and gone through hardware changes etc, maybe start looking at the components you have not changed. If you have a USB hub, unplug your MIDI device from that and connect direct to the PC. If you have another MIDI keyboard then test with that. Otherwise, download another DAW and load up something and test in that and see if the issue appears gone.

[jur]
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by [jur] » Sun May 12, 2019 5:07 pm

aklisiewicz, would you stop with this prick attitude toward people that are trying to help you, please?
Your acting this way in every thread, did you read the forum community guidelines?
Nothing rocket science in there, just simple obvious respect rules that actually make sense in the non-web life too.
If you're feeling like it is too much asking, then please pass on.
Otherwise I'll have to use my forum-cop privileges at some point, which isn't something pleasant to do.
cheers
Ableton Forum Moderator

aklisiewicz
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:33 am

Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by aklisiewicz » Mon May 13, 2019 5:17 am

Thank you all for replies but they did not fix the problem.
My attitude is not towards other users, I'm just pissed of on Ableton Support which over such a long time could not help me or fix the issue. After some time I got so tired of dealing with this that I stoped working with Live. The I spent money on upgrade and deal with the same crap. I'm not saying this problem is a bug in Live for sure. I understand this could be other things but Ableton support is just horrible (comparing to what it was 10 years ago).

The reason is simple. This issue happens when:
- I play a keyboard (no clips are played at all)
- whenn I do play a midi clip, with single Abe instrument, no edited envelopes, not antomation nothing, just plain midi notes recorded
- when the clip has been edited (audio FX added etc...)

- on my other project this happens when I use Omnisphere and some NI VSTs (I cannot remember at the moment which ones), (so this is not limited to one project or one VST)


My USB hub was replaced (better one), I also use 3 midi keyboards and this happens regardless which keyboard I use (so it is very unlikely 3 keyboards and 3 cables are bad). The only thing I have not replaced were sustain pedals, but I tried to unplug them and it did not fix the problem.




It seems that some buffer of something is filling up over the time because one pattern I noticed is that at the beginning when I open the project it works ok, and usually this happens after some time 3-15 min or so. another wired thing is (at least in this project) that it happens only to one track where I have a Abe Sampler. No other track has this problem. I also noticed that this (still not 100% sure on that) happens to the track with instruments that have some kind (internal delay, sustain etc.). To make this worse, there are times when this problem does not show up at all (so it is sort of random), but more often one week and less on another.

When this started to happen 3 years ago I thought it might be my interface (I used M-AUDIO device or its driver). Later (while still in Live8) I purchased BEHRINGER-4/4 unit which obviosly came with its own drivers). I still kept having same issue. Then I upgraded to Live 10 hoping the problem will be fixed, but obviously it is not. :!:
-------------------------------

The simple logic would be - that if I only play keyboard (playing live) no clips involved that the problem has nothing to do with the clip.
Today I trad to work on the project and after 15 min I ghad to give up simply because after this time I keep getting this horrible feedback (this time it was from recorded clip). When I repoted PC the issue went away and after 10 min or so reapeared.

I installed ASIO4ALL driver today I will see if this possibly helps.
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

Fanu
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by Fanu » Mon May 13, 2019 4:37 pm

Whenever this happens next time, maybe delete everything but the problematic track (with Sampler, ideally, so we all can load it), collect all and save, upload, and share with others, and we can see if the same issue happens to us.
My best guess is it's something in your computer and not Live….I wouldn't blame the software.
I've used Live very extensively for many years and never heard of such issue.
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aklisiewicz
Posts: 358
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by aklisiewicz » Mon May 13, 2019 5:13 pm

Thanks for replies.

I tend to think it might be something in the system (OS) but was not able figure out so far.

I switched to ASIO4ALL yesterday and so far for about 3-4 hours of use it all worked fine. I will post back here ifthe problem comes back.
Perhaps I was so unlucky that either M-AUDIO or BEGRINGER drivers have had issues. We will see.
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

Fanu
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by Fanu » Tue May 14, 2019 6:44 am

Just as expected: it's not the software, it's your computer or something in your setup, and you've been dissing the company/software all this time.
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Mastering & mixing by Fanu | Ableton Live Basics tutorial video
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aklisiewicz
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Re: Stuck sound - OMG I'm so pissed off

Post by aklisiewicz » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:05 am

I have another project using exactly the same Able instrument and one project has problem with the sutck sound, but the other one does not. The difference betwqeen the two is the lenght of the track One with the problem is about 40 min, the other one is only 5 min or os. Every single time the last notes get stuck and keep playing while the bar has alreay way past the track end. In other cases this happens when I'm just playing live.
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

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