LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different - FIXED in Beta 10.1.2b3

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[jur]
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by [jur] » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:46 am

Pitch Black wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:17 am
[jur] wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:00 pm
REPORT!!!
Do you mean post a bug report in the beta forum? Or "report" the issue to Abe support? Sorry a little unclear from your post :oops:

I think Angstrom's bug 6481 covers it, so I won't post a new one there.
I've emailed Support though, along with sent them the live Set.
It's all good then :wink:
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by [jur] » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:32 pm

I did a similar test with Echo and I also get unexpected results:
- the modulations don't respect the waveforms shapes
- turning repitch off does still repitch, but in a slightly different way...

Angstrom & Pitch Black, you're welcome to add this info to your reports. I'm forwarding it on my side.
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by [jur] » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:05 am

Pitch Black wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:11 am
Angstrom wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:14 pm
There are some issues with the new delay interpolation.
I reported them in the beta but no response.

L10-BUG-6481
Yep, it looks like the behaviour you note would also be the cause of my woes. You're driving the problem by automating delay time with the LFO, I'm driving the problem by automating delay time using the 16th buttons.

The interpolation or "ramp speed" or "ballistics" between values/speeds as New Delay changes time values in Repitch mode is different.

This is a HUGE and stinky bug for me. It breaks a big part of how I perform live. (Squeltcy-squeltchy-dub-dub-dub as personal expression...)

The pic of the resulting pitch curve you posted in your bug report looks like what I'm hearing:
[Attribution: Angstrom]
Image

I've emailed Support.

And now, turn freeze on... and you get a totally different result. Not sure what is expected, though.
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by Pitch Black » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:14 am

Cool, new behaviour and sounds are all fine, just as long as it doesnt destroy the old things.

Why couldn’t Simple Delay be kept around as a “classic” option. Lord knows Logic has some very ancient EQ options, going back to pre-Apple Emagic days!
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by cotdagoo » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:10 pm

Pitch Black wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:14 am
Why couldn’t Simple Delay be kept around as a “classic” option. Lord knows Logic has some very ancient EQ options, going back to pre-Apple Emagic days!
Yeah.. I even tried saving SimpleDelay from Live 9 and loading it into 10.1 similar to how people were using Live 8's old compressor after it was changed for Live 9... Doesn't work.

Seems like the entire Simple Delay framework has been removed in favour of this new device, so the old bits can't even be loaded when device saved from a previous version.

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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by [tow] » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:25 pm

Please report this directly to our Support (as 10.1 is released now), ideally with an example set, your steps to trigger the issue (expected vs. observed) and a recent status report. We would like to investigate this for sure.

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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by Pitch Black » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:40 pm

[tow] wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:25 pm
Please report this directly to our Support (as 10.1 is released now), ideally with an example set, your steps to trigger the issue (expected vs. observed) and a recent status report. We would like to investigate this for sure.
Already reported. Support ticket no. 2305443. Awaiting response. :)
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by Pitch Black » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:44 pm

Support responded:

“I've attempted to reproduce this issue in-house, using your attached set, and can confirm that there is an audible difference in Delay output between Live 10.0.4 (10.0.6) and Live 10.1.

I've filed this issue as a bug and alerted our development team to the problem. I'll set your inquiry to 'On-Hold' and have attached your ticket to our tracking system so that you will be notified if and when we have an update regarding this issue.”
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by Angstrom » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:02 pm

An update from the latest Beta changelog

Bugfixes:
  • Live Sets created in versions of Live older than 10.1 that contain instances of Simple Delay or Ping Pong Delay devices with delay time automation now sound more consistent.
not tried it yet.

Unrelated but amusing, another bugfix is:
  • Fixed a bug that caused the Wavetable device to output +100 dB when changing the range of a mapped Macro, under certain circumstances.
+100dB. wow. Thankfully I've not experienced that one.

Anyway. It looks like something is happening to the Delay to rectify the wrongs.

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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by [jur] » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:32 pm

Angstrom wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:02 pm
Unrelated but amusing, another bugfix is:
  • Fixed a bug that caused the Wavetable device to output +100 dB when changing the range of a mapped Macro, under certain circumstances.
+100dB. wow. Thankfully I've not experienced that one.
Your template has a Limiter on the Master anyway, no?
It makes me think that the default Live template should have one.
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by pottering » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:20 pm

+ 100 db is not a big problem besides the obvious (clipping distortion), as no audio interface outputs more than 0 dBFS (so no need for limiters in the Master).

I mean, it is a problem, but not worse than those +5 dBFS presets you find in so many synths.

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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by Angstrom » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 pm

[jur] wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:32 pm
Your template has a Limiter on the Master anyway, no?
It makes me think that the default Live template should have one.
Have you been peeping in my window again?
Heh.

my default template (the one live loads automatically) doesn't have anything on the master. I have some other templates which are for other specific purposes and about a third of those have a limiter on the mains. Most explicably are those of my templates for jamming and performing live.

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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by Pitch Black » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:01 pm

Angstrom wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:02 pm
An update from the latest Beta changelog

Bugfixes:
  • Live Sets created in versions of Live older than 10.1 that contain instances of Simple Delay or Ping Pong Delay devices with delay time automation now sound more consistent.
Just tested, THIS FIXES IT!!! The old familliar squeltch is back! :D :D :D
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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different

Post by Tarekith » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:03 am

Party time, celebrate! :!:

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Re: LIVE 10.1 New Delay Sounds Different - FIXED in Beta 10.1.2b3

Post by annadyne » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:58 am

Thanks for posting about the anomaly with Delay - I just ran into this problem the other day.
Great to know it's been addressed!

You guys rock ~~~
~ Liz

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