Channel EQ or EQ8?

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braduro
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Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by braduro » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:53 pm

They have around the same CPU draw. Light in either case.
Which do you think is a better channel strip eq for iso instrumentation tracks? Trying to assemble my default audio track. Admittedly 8 bands is likely overkill for carving out a good eq. But I have a pretty good group device that has most of the knobs within reach. I could do a 4-band version of this such that the Q is also on the face plate. Or I could also emulate the curves and ranges on the new channel EQ. The new Channel EQ seems to me more like a finishing touches EQ. Like a sub mix eq. Or a good performance setting EQ, perhaps also on the Output stage of the signal flow.

What are your thoughts on which one will be your go-to channel strip eq?

Tarekith
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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by Tarekith » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:33 pm

EQ8 in mid-side mode, definitely. Channel EQ is interesting, but I want a bit more control in how I shape the tone of things.
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braduro
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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by braduro » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:58 am

Terekith, why do you think they put the shelf at the frequencies they did? 100, with a slight shift for the low. I do like the additional low-pass on the upper end. 20 down to 8K into cranial pitches makes sense. If I ran out of macros on a m/s (which I completely agree with, btw) grouped EQ8, where would you tune the low and the high? Why did they use a shelf rather than a cutoff? If you were trying to reconstruct this with EQ8, would you constrain your Q they way they did in the mids? What would be the sweepable range?

Do you think the idea is for 2-stage EQing? That's why there's the make-up gain, yeah? Put the EQ8 on the input stage, tuned in isolation, correctively and this Channel EQ on the last stage tuned to the mix, for the overall results.

How about in a performance environment? You come into a dance club, or you are a live remixer, or someone who composes through improvisation like I do. the speaker relays are resulting in one thing, suppose. Or the songs I have on deck are just a bit brash. Or I want to stay in the creative flow and I don't want to fall out of it sweeping a notch. Do you think that's what the Channel EQ is deservedly for? Would you leave the Channel EQ in place if it was used compositionally on the fly, or do you think its coloration is a bit of a compromise? Would you ultimately replace it with the EQ8 when you returned to the studio? Of course my performance template has to be as lean as it can be, so do you think if push came to shove, I could shove out EQ8 on my bass tracks, my pad tracks, etc.--which are admittedly already in the ballpark of where they need to be in most situations--and just use the channel EQ?

jlgrimes
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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by jlgrimes » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:29 pm

braduro wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:53 pm
They have around the same CPU draw. Light in either case.
Which do you think is a better channel strip eq for iso instrumentation tracks? Trying to assemble my default audio track. Admittedly 8 bands is likely overkill for carving out a good eq. But I have a pretty good group device that has most of the knobs within reach. I could do a 4-band version of this such that the Q is also on the face plate. Or I could also emulate the curves and ranges on the new channel EQ. The new Channel EQ seems to me more like a finishing touches EQ. Like a sub mix eq. Or a good performance setting EQ, perhaps also on the Output stage of the signal flow.

What are your thoughts on which one will be your go-to channel strip eq?

Channel is more quick and dirty. You quickly want to brighten/darken something. You aren't concerned with precision. Probably better for composing or rough mixing or even buses.

EQ8 if you really need to do detailed adjustments, hence the many bands and more controls.

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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by Angstrom » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:35 pm

ChannelEQ is a very unusual move by Ableton. I can understand it for Lite users, but for everyone else it's a bit pointless.

For quick and easy light/dark EQing I have a racked EQ8 preset where a single macro knob tilts the EQ toward the bass or top end. If I need to put a hard Hipass on I can quickly do that. If I need to go further and add a notch removal band, or start to boost a range, I can keep tweaking and add that too. EQ8 does what Channel EQ does and a hell of a lot more. So why even bother with making Channel EQ?
It's a baffling addition.
Other than for Lite users, as I said.

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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by Tarekith » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:18 am

It’s nice and simple for Push users too.
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braduro
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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by braduro » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:55 pm

Thanks for circling around to this, folks. We are of like minds.
Maybe they want to think of adding an UPGRADE button to the Channel EQ that converts someone's current settings to the EQ8. That way they can be in the moment (show a client where the mix is headed for example. Or start a live looping session down and dirty, et.), and then address something more deliberately in the studio if need be.

Tarekith with the save! Yes, it would really be easy to make and see the adjustments splayed on a Push. That would be a consideration...

braduro
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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by braduro » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:52 am

Resurrecting this thread to offer some merits of Channel EQ. As I mentioned prior, it's great for getting something to a presentable stage while swiftly returning to creative decisions. Additionally, this production channel on youtube describes a philosophy and perspective better than I can:

https://youtu.be/2Gls252xwcc

Although many producers like to dedicate a utility device to their gain staging rather than adjust the output on the compressor or eq or other devices, there is merit to having this option under your fingers on the same device. It sure makes it easy to close one's eyes and listen with two available knobs on a push or controller when weighing frequencies in one hand and adjusting gain in the other. (Same goes for a compressor.) And it was very easy to save channel EQ with 100K,1000k, and 10K as a default.

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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by [jur] » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:43 pm

These Kush After Hours videos are amongst the best ones.
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jlgrimes
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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:15 pm

braduro wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:53 pm
They have around the same CPU draw. Light in either case.
Which do you think is a better channel strip eq for iso instrumentation tracks? Trying to assemble my default audio track. Admittedly 8 bands is likely overkill for carving out a good eq. But I have a pretty good group device that has most of the knobs within reach. I could do a 4-band version of this such that the Q is also on the face plate. Or I could also emulate the curves and ranges on the new channel EQ. The new Channel EQ seems to me more like a finishing touches EQ. Like a sub mix eq. Or a good performance setting EQ, perhaps also on the Output stage of the signal flow.

What are your thoughts on which one will be your go-to channel strip eq?
If you are using a mouse and doing mixing/production at home probably EQ8 as it has 8 fully configurable bands.


If you are at a Live show and using Push, Channel EQ might be quicker to get results, than fiddling with an EQ8 where you are pressured for time.


Kind of like if you had a Mackie Mixer, and had to get a sound EQ'd, you would get it sounding as good as you can and move on to something else, where if you had 8 bands you would spend more time on it.

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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by scientofficial » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:04 am

I know this is a two year topic but I wanted to chime in for those who may come later on looking to un-ravel the secrets of 'Channel EQ'. It's built to act in the same way as 'Analog Mixers' 3-Band EQ(s). On analog mixing consoles you always have low, mid, hi along with a pre-amp option. I don't think many people realize that on analog eq(s) that even though you can just turn up or down these low, mid, hi knobs that internally they had certain types of curves. So for example if you boosted the low end, you may actually be shelving at a certain frequency range as well as notching and even maybe cutting all with the turn of a knob. This applies to all three knobs; so channel eq is actually those 3-bands per channel that you'd fine on an analog mixer and they're usages are great for smoothly cleaning up the low end, controlling the mid-range, and defining the highs.

Just take a look at a basic mixing hardware (analog) eq and you'll see the 3-bands on each 'CHANNEL'. It's a channel eq that should basically be the first plugin in a serial chain on each of your track channels. This is how you start your serial chain building towards a analog styled effects channel per channel.

The 'EQ Eight' and 'Channel EQ' should actually be used in combination with eachother but I'm hundred percent sure that you shouldn't compare them because they are used for two totally different purposes within the same sessions.

braduro
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Re: Channel EQ or EQ8?

Post by braduro » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:13 pm

Right, so when do you make the transition from one to the other? What order do you put them in? I'm not asking because I don't know what I would do. I'm asking because you made a stand in order to distinguish between them, but it's a bit unclear when you move your work from one to the other. Why not take a chance and be subjective? Why are you shoulding on people if you yourself haven't pointed to a specific user case that isn't self-evident, general information? Sorry. Just a bit impatient with being lectured. How 100% certain are you?

Are you saying that the Channel EQ is there for intentional coloration? Kind of like Harrison MixBus? Also, long before the Channel EQ we've had the EQ3, which arguably you could have said the same thing. We've known that the crossover frequencies are not neutral adjustments, and although it's designed to reflect a mixing deck, it's more likely to have emulated a DJ mixer than what you are describing. If I'm using EQ8 it's for its transparency and maybe a single active band. If I use channel strip, that's safe to say it's on my default audio track, disengaged. But it's there to address any immediate decisions involving the mix or noise floor or total energy. Either could be considered a "glue" EQ, but I would gather that the Channel EQ is more suited for these purposes. I can do that with EQ8 as well, get rid of non-intentional areas of a channel that are feeding off my headroom allocation, like suppose a synth with a low-pass stereo effect that's evolving but leaving behind a large wake or cascade in the sub-bass. Either EQ would work just fine.

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