recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Aton
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:29 am

recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by Aton » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:45 pm

I have been producing with ableton since 2004 but never used external synths. So this is a newbie question for sure. Been looking at the deepmind12d and was wondering what I would be losing or gaining compared to vst synths. Will Live record the automation initiated from the external synth? And when I open my project will Live recall the preset that I used for the synth? Thanks for your help.

Mark Williams
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Deal, Kent

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by Mark Williams » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:42 pm

Automation will be recorded, but not recall what preset you used (not sure on midi program changes etc) I usually write the preset I use in track name
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL, Waves Audio Beta tester
Get 10% off Waves Plugins https://www.waves.com/r/r0z5tks

Mark Williams
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Deal, Kent

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by Mark Williams » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:43 pm

Rename the Ableton track with the deepmind on with the preset is how I remember them lol.. Deepmind12 is a nice synth.
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL, Waves Audio Beta tester
Get 10% off Waves Plugins https://www.waves.com/r/r0z5tks

Aton
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:29 am

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by Aton » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:59 am

thanks!

blof_eld
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by blof_eld » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:43 am

Live will only record MIDI CC commands into clips, I don't know about the Deepmind but if it sends some changes using SYSEX commands then they will not be recorded into clips.

Aton
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:29 am

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by Aton » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:11 pm

Thanks for the info. My Diva VST is looking sweeter now that I know about the limits of the external hardware.

blof_eld
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by blof_eld » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:46 am

I like VST workflow much better than hardware. Maybe for gigging hardware is better but I'm nowhere near that level unfortunately. :lol:

Diva is a great synth.

chillyboy
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:02 am
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Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by chillyboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:08 am

Has anyone had luck recording the automation from Deep Mind 12D into Ableton yet?

I'm having a tough time even with this handy VST app I purchased by Momo Muller
It seems like I'm so close

https://youtu.be/fu93GemQAic

Using Ext Instrument, Ableton doesn't see any midi
Track, Sync, Remote all on Ableton sees none

I'm surprised recording midi from this into ableton via usb isn't simpler, I'v never had issues like this with a Taurus or Sub 37 etc
Perhaps someone has a fix for this? :roll:

timday
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:02 pm

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by timday » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:31 am

cc info should be the track input field. Ext instrument is MIDI out/Audio in only so won't pick up MIDI - I generally use a separate MIDI track for recording stuff like this. Deepmind does send MIDI cc according to the manual so a spearate MIDI track with the Behringer as the input set to record should pick up cc input as clip automation in Ableton.



If it doesn't I'm afraid I have no idea why not.....do you have USB MIDI out enabled in the global menu?

Mark Williams
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Deal, Kent

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by Mark Williams » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:24 pm

Ensuring send and receive are using same Midi channel
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL, Waves Audio Beta tester
Get 10% off Waves Plugins https://www.waves.com/r/r0z5tks

chillyboy
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Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by chillyboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:21 pm

timday wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:31 am
cc info should be the track input field. Ext instrument is MIDI out/Audio in only so won't pick up MIDI - I generally use a separate MIDI track for recording stuff like this. Deepmind does send MIDI cc according to the manual so a spearate MIDI track with the Behringer as the input set to record should pick up cc input as clip automation in Ableton.



If it doesn't I'm afraid I have no idea why not.....do you have USB MIDI out enabled in the global menu?
Thanks for helping out, I have attached a couple photos to show how my settings are set up on Ableton

https://imgur.com/qOBDfy7
https://imgur.com/UONpzYb


You will notice that Ableton is receiving midi showing that yellow dot, but isn't changing on the clip side... Still says Mixer and Speaker

On the Deepmind I have these settings

>>Midi Settings
Midi-Ctrl Cc
Prog-Change RX
RX-Channel 1
Tx-Channel 1
Soft-Thru Off
Midi>USB-Thru Off
Midi>Wifi-Thru Off

>>USB Settings
USB-Ctrl Cc
Prog-Change RX
RX-Channel All
Tx-Channel RxCh
USB>Midi-Thru Off
USB>Wifi-Thru Off

Mark Williams
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Deal, Kent

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by Mark Williams » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:02 am

Still doesnt show what midi channels you are sending & receiving within Ableton thou. The first photo clearly shows you have nothing selected in Midi Out channel.
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL, Waves Audio Beta tester
Get 10% off Waves Plugins https://www.waves.com/r/r0z5tks

chillyboy
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:02 am
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Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by chillyboy » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:15 am

Mark Williams wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:02 am
Still doesnt show what midi channels you are sending & receiving within Ableton thou. The first photo clearly shows you have nothing selected in Midi Out channel.
It doesn't change anything whether I pick Deepmind in and out, or in only, or out only
Or whether I pick channel 1 which is the one that the midi info appears on, when I put deepmind 12d in

I'm just trying to record automation from fader or other knobs movement on the deepmind, I can get sound using ext. instrument no prob

chillyboy
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Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by chillyboy » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:41 am

Here's a couple more screenshots to emphasize my confusion

First one, used a Midi monitor and Sustain movement shows up

https://imgur.com/MpUzxAc

However, when I click over to the clip view, the Midi monitor does not change to CC41 to correspond with the input

https://imgur.com/HmjNICF

I'm not sure what I am missing here but I'll be sure to share my solution so nobody else has this issue
I've also reached out to Behringer and Reddit!

timday
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:02 pm

Re: recording automation from external synth (Deepmind 12d)

Post by timday » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:14 am

OK so
- You are correct that in your case MIDI channel is not really relevant since you have the track to recieve all channels anyway. And you aren't sending the cc just trying to record it. So it isn't that.
- don't have a deepmind so tried cc recording off one of my Synths and cc recording works just fine (arm automation , arm track, record cc movement, you should see it in the envelope field of the clip under the correct cc) so it shouldn't be an Ableton issue. You should see something like this below.

I am not sure sending it via the MIDI monitor helps as you are recording the cc not a parameter of the monitor (might not make a difference but I don't use that particular monitor so not 100% sure how its send/recieve works)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51423820@ ... ed-public/

From the manual the Behringer is set up correctly and you seem to be recieving MIDI so it's a bit of a puzzle. Maybe try mapping the cc to a macro or something just to verify that cc info is in fact getting through?

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