Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

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eaman
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by eaman » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:21 pm

I'm using Windows 10 not a Mac.
I'm shopping for a budget (150e) better (than my basic 44100 zoom B3) interface for my VSTs, better for me would mean: stable / reliable, possibly multichannel / shared mode so that I don't have to go crazy to find out what is using ASIO in exclusive mode at the moment preventing me to hear sound from any other source...

I'm reading good reviews of a Behringer UMC204HD which is supposed to work nicely with WDM drivers, as in windows drivers instead of ASIO. That would be perfect: no messing with ASIO interfaces and the device is shared between all apps running on the OS.

Question is: does it actually works well? In case, are there other interfaces that have a good WDM driver implementation to compare to the Behringer? I just need playback and an input for a guitar would do.

miyaru
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Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by miyaru » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 pm

I don't know about the Behringer, how good it is.

Why no ASIO drivers? These are better for latency etc. For about €150,= you can buy a Focusrite or a Presonus.

https://www.thomann.de/nl/presonus_studio_24c.htm and https://www.thomann.de/nl/focusrite_sca ... rch_prv_11

These are proven good, I use two Scarletts for my radio broadcasts and a Saffire Pro 40 at home.

Behringer can be good for the money, but try before you buy!
Greetings from Miyaru.

Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Live Suit 10, Push2, Reason Suite 11, Presonus Eris E8, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Korg R3, NI Massive, Rob Papen's Predator 2, Sonarworks Reference 4 and Scaler.

eaman
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by eaman » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:44 pm

miyaru wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 pm
I don't know about the Behringer, how good it is.

Why no ASIO drivers?
Actually I've always been using ASIO, recently I've seen good reviews of WDM implementation as for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWZEs0idBj8 and so I'm asking about it.

With ASIO I have the problem that it takes exclusive control of my sound card (so my audio monitors with it) and I have to keep switching between ASIO / WASPI if I want to listen to a tutorial on you tube or anything else while one of my software is controlling my audio interface. I see that there are multi-client implementation of ASIO but I dunno:
- if they are stable on windows 10
- if they do require to mess constantly with sample rate of each client to have the same sample rate for all
- it's not clearly stated if an audio interface under windows 10 support this feature (if anyone as a link for it please post it )

WDM is windows so if a manufacturer has made a proper driver for its hardware that gives good latency and no clipping I could stay on WASAPI / WDM all the time and be done with it.

Mark Williams
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Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by Mark Williams » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:35 pm

You will find all audio interfaces for Windows have & use Asio drivers, so maybe you should get use to that.

You will also find that WASAPI developers can also use 'exclusive' mode under WASAPI too, but the biggest problem with WASAPI is that if doesnt offer sample rate conversion by default, so for a developer it means you have to write your own sample rate converter, which is no trivial thing, plus under shared mode, you would need to hope that the audio sample rate is the same as the WASAPI engine, or write your own converter. which would in turn also increase latency, making it no better than Asio. Why Microsoft chose not to include SRC automatically who knows. As in the end SRC has to occur somewhere.
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL,

jlgrimes
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Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by jlgrimes » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:26 pm

Im not sure if Ableton even supports WDM or at least the low latency WDM with ks.

Sonar was the only DAW I remembered that supported this.


I had an Echo Layla 3g that had pretty good WDM drivers although that was awhile ago. Now it seems like either ASIO (PC) or Core Audio (Mac) are the drivers that are supported.

eaman
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Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by eaman » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:07 pm

jlgrimes wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:26 pm
Im not sure if Ableton even supports WDM or at least the low latency WDM with ks.

Sonar was the only DAW I remembered that supported this.


I had an Echo Layla 3g that had pretty good WDM drivers although that was awhile ago. Now it seems like either ASIO (PC) or Core Audio (Mac) are the drivers that are supported.
Yes it should, the video describing the latency https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWZEs0idBj8 is made with Ableton.

jlgrimes
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Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by jlgrimes » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:19 pm

eaman wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:44 pm
miyaru wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 pm

With ASIO I have the problem that it takes exclusive control of my sound card (so my audio monitors with it) and I have to keep switching between ASIO / WASPI if I want to listen to a tutorial on you tube or anything else while one of my software is controlling my audio interface. I see that there are multi-client implementation of ASIO but I dunno:
- if they are stable on windows 10
- if they do require to mess constantly with sample rate of each client to have the same sample rate for all
- it's not clearly stated if an audio interface under windows 10 support this feature (if anyone as a link for it please post it )
This is mainly an issue with built-in soundcards that don't have a proper ASIO driver (or older PCI style interfaces) in where ASIO4ALL is used.

ASIO by the spec only allows one Client at a time but most modern ASIO implementations have worked around that limitation. On my Scarlett I have multiclient support.

Mark Williams
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Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by Mark Williams » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:19 pm

Thats not Ableton at all, thats Reaper.
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL,

eaman
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Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by eaman » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:27 am

Mark Williams wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:19 pm
Thats not Ableton at all, thats Reaper.
Oh sorry, you are right.
In Live I can see a MME/Direct X option in sound preferences.
The best things I'm reading now is: http://www.staudio.de/kb/english/drivers/ , I'll try to look for specific of WDM / Bheringer drivers with Ableton.

EDIT: it seems like Ableton does not support WDM.

jlgrimes
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Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by jlgrimes » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:26 pm

eaman wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:27 am
Mark Williams wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:19 pm
Thats not Ableton at all, thats Reaper.
Oh sorry, you are right.
In Live I can see a MME/Direct X option in sound preferences.
The best things I'm reading now is: http://www.staudio.de/kb/english/drivers/ , I'll try to look for specific of WDM / Bheringer drivers with Ableton.

EDIT: it seems like Ableton does not support WDM.
I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd gen approx $150 brand new. Last night I tested playing audio in Live using ASIO driver and a YouTube video and was successful.

I know many years ago I was successful doing this with a Presonus Audiobox as well.


I think most new audio interfaces support this.

I know my Echo Layla 3g didn't support this. It is a 15 year old device though. And I know ASIO4ALL dont work. But I would be surprised that any ASIO native interface that's currently made dont support this.

eaman
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by eaman » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:36 pm

jlgrimes wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:26 pm
I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd gen approx $150 brand new.
The Scarlett is indeed a multi client ASIO interface aunder Windows.

miyaru
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: Windows WDM instead of ASIO for a audio interface?

Post by miyaru » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:56 pm

That is why advised for a Focusrite or Presonus interface in the first place.........They are proven to do that!!!!!

I think both the preamp opamps of a Focusrite and Presonus are better than that from a Behringer, but I might be wrong........... I'm not to fond of Behtinger myself, but that is me :mrgreen:
Greetings from Miyaru.

Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Live Suit 10, Push2, Reason Suite 11, Presonus Eris E8, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Korg R3, NI Massive, Rob Papen's Predator 2, Sonarworks Reference 4 and Scaler.

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