Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

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estebie
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Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by estebie » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:47 pm

So I'm using the drumrack in classic mode. I've noticed that the sustain of the ADSR does nothing and the envelope basically acts as an AD envelope where the decay and release times are added together to make a constant decay time. Is there a new feature in live 10 that I'm missing, like a hidden trigger/gate toggle similar to the one that's in one shot mode? The length of the sound doesn't change at all depending on your note length or anything. I haven't been using drumracks in Ableton that much recently, but I remember the adsr working and it accepting note offs when I used it more heavily. Am I missing something or is this a glitch?

[jur]
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by [jur] » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:58 am

If your note is not sustaining, then of course your Sustain value is not used.
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estebie
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by estebie » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:17 am

What jur? My note length (on the timeline) is changing and it has no effect on the length of the played sound. If the note on the timeline is held for less time that the sample length I would like the sound to cut off before the end of the sound (after the release). This is how a normal adsr on a sampler works.

I don't expect the samples to turn into infinitely sustained held notes when they are drums lol, just to trigger the release and cut off when a note off is received.

estebie
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by estebie » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:28 am

The sustain is basically always at -infdb. The decay and release times add together to make the decay of an ad envelope that doesnt seem to care about note offs at all. It doesn't matter how long the note is sustaining, could be 10ms or 10 seconds.

estebie
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by estebie » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:40 am

To provide a more clear example: Setting the amp envelope decay and release times to 1ms and the sustain to 0db and holding down a 1 second c1 midi note to trigger a core 808 bassdrum makes a 2ms click. Changing the value of the sustain slightly changes the quality of the click for some weird reason, but never makes it sustain at all. The only way to actually hear the bassdrum is to raise the decay or release.

chrk
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by chrk » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:12 am

estebie wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:40 am
to trigger a core 808 bassdrum
That sample is completely decayed after about 1.5 s.

In order to introduce any sustain you'd need to loop a part of it and embrace the artifacts of that.

estebie
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by estebie » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:41 pm

Chrk, I know. I would expect it to play the sample only while the note is being held though. I don't want infinite sustain on a 1.5 seconds sample.... I want the sample to cut short if I play a note that last less that 1.5 seconds. Not to trigger the whole sample. I also want the sustain parameter of an adsr to work as expected and change the envelope of the played sounds. If the sustain is at 0db (full volume) and the decay and release are at 1ms I should still here the whole sound when I play a 2 second note. Not only a 2ms click until I change the decay or release times.

Also if I change the length of the note to less than the sample length I want the played sound to cut short. That's how drum rack used to work and how all adsrs with samplers work.

This is such a silly glitch that it seems stupid but please try it.
Last edited by estebie on Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

estebie
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by estebie » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:43 pm

Also to restate this: "I don't expect the samples to turn into infinitely sustained held notes when they are drums lol, just to trigger the release and cut off when a note off is received."

pottering
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by pottering » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:51 pm

Drum Rack doesn't have a "classic mode".

Drum Rack is not a sampler.

Drum Racks is a Rack, just a container, can hold VA synths instead of samplers, or even just a step sequencer like Thesys.

Drum Racks accept note offs just fine.

It is Simpler that has a Classic mode, and also has a 1-Shot mode.

Most people DON'T want ADSR in a drum instrument, they want a drum sound to just play, not deal with slow attack ruining a snare or short release killing a crash.

So it is not true that Drum Rack used to default to a "Classic" mode that played ADSR like a synth.

If you want that synth-like ADSR behaviour as default, then you can setup a new default Simpler preset set to Classic mode in User Library/Defaults/Dropping Samples/On Drum Rack.

(Though I bet you will find that default inconvenient after not long)

estebie
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Re: Drum Rack in classic mode not accepting note offs

Post by estebie » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:49 pm

@pottering sorry I misspoke. I meant that the simpler and sampler, when set up within the drum rack shell, dont have adsrs that work like normal when they are in classic mode. I understand why it isnt that way by default. But I would expect that the adsr wpuld work as normal when you switch it to this mode. However when you do, the decay and release times seem to add together to make a fixed decay time that doesnt take the note off or sustain value into account. I make drums out of field recordings and my own samples so adsrs are very important to me in this context.

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