Undo history gets flooded but only when mapping to two parameters.

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audiosymmetry
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:55 am

Undo history gets flooded but only when mapping to two parameters.

Post by audiosymmetry » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:33 am

Undo history gets flooded with small increments of data when mapping midi controller to any two non binary parameters in ableton (e.g. volume, frequency, etc).

I've seen this problem pop up for others on the forum but only in the context of M4L devices acting wonky. This issue occurs for me with no M4L devices present. It happens exclusively when I map a knob or slider to more than one non binary parameter in Ableton, which renders undo history useless after any significant movement of the knob or slider. I can't be the only having this problem.
Last edited by audiosymmetry on Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

Angstrom
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Re: Help me O elders of ableton

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:07 am

First thing I'd do is test those encoders/pots to ensure they aren't sending out extraneous data. Quit live, open up something like MIDIox and watch the incoming data after youve twiddled a knob.
If there's twittering there check the power to the device, check its being supplied with the correct voltage/ ampage. Check USB cables or MIDI cables too, a continuity tester can be handy if you are unsure.

Thats what I'd do as step one. Establish the powere and connectivity is OK
Last edited by Angstrom on Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

borg
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Re: Help me O elders of ableton

Post by borg » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 am

It seems logic behavior to me. You map one encoder to two different parameters, hence when you turn the encoder, the software registers all values twice in the undo history, and it registers this in time. So you turn that knob "10 clicks", and it would only seem logic that the undo history will look something like this:

param 2: x +10
param 1: x +10
param 2: x +9
param 1: x +9
...
param 2: x +1
param 1: x +1
(x of course as starting value)

It is what is, I guess. If you want to edit just one of the two assigned parameters, you'd have to go inside the clip or arrangement.
Unless I got it all wrong...
andy
2015 MBP, OSX 10.9, Live 9.6 64bit, RME Fireface 800

audiosymmetry
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:55 am

Re: Help me O elders of ableton

Post by audiosymmetry » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:12 pm

Angstrom wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:07 am
First thing I'd do is test those encoders/pots to ensure they aren't sending out extraneous data. Quit live, open up something like MIDIox and watch the incoming data after youve twiddled a knob.
If there's twittering there check the power to the device, check its being supplied with the correct voltage/ ampage. Check USB cables or MIDI cables too, a continuity tester can be handy if you are unsure.

Thats what I'd do as step one. Establish the powere and connectivity is OK
No twittering here, but I'm curious, are you not experiencing this issue when you map to more than one encoder?

audiosymmetry
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:55 am

Re: Help me O elders of ableton

Post by audiosymmetry » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:46 pm

borg wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 am
It seems logic behavior to me. You map one encoder to two different parameters, hence when you turn the encoder, the software registers all values twice in the undo history, and it registers this in time. So you turn that knob "10 clicks", and it would only seem logic that the undo history will look something like this:

param 2: x +10
param 1: x +10
param 2: x +9
param 1: x +9
...
param 2: x +1
param 1: x +1
(x of course as starting value)

It is what is, I guess. If you want to edit just one of the two assigned parameters, you'd have to go inside the clip or arrangement.
Unless I got it all wrong...
I would agree that the behavior is logical except that the undo history never gets flooded if I only map to a single parameter. The behavior I get with a single mapped parameter is that the undo data only gets added after I've let go of the knob or slider whereas every single value increment gets added to the undo history when multiple parameters are mapped.

For example, if I map a slider to a single parameter that has 127 values, pushing the slider from top to bottom does not add 127 undo steps, it only adds one step (i.e. the value at the bottom of the slider), whereas if I map a slider to 2 parameters that both have 127 values, pushing the slider from top to bottom results in 254 steps added to undo history, does that make sense?

audiosymmetry
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:55 am

Re: Help me O elders of ableton

Post by audiosymmetry » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:50 pm

Also I think I'm using the word "encoder" incorrectly. By encoder I mean any non binary parameter in Ableton (e.g. volume, frequency, etc).

borg
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Re: Help me O elders of ableton

Post by borg » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:03 am

audiosymmetry wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:46 pm
The behavior I get with a single mapped parameter is that the undo data only gets added after I've let go of the knob or slider whereas every single value increment gets added to the undo history when multiple parameters are mapped.
True, and I use 'cmd + Z' quite often as well after sweeping a parameter (mostly kick lo cut, but could be anything) to get it back at the default position (or rather the value the parameter had before the change). But Live is still 'just' software, and can't go interpret things on its own.
When I want to manipulate different parameters with just one midi encoder, I usually group every device in one rack, map the things you want to one macro, and assign an encoder to the macro you just made. It adds functionality (ranges), is easy, can be expanded, and it reacts to 'cmd +Z' as you would expect.

One drawback is, this only works for the devices in that rack. You need m4l and/or coding skills if you want your macros to also control other parts of the software. Or get your wallet out, and look for stuff like PXT Live or Isotonik Smart.
andy
2015 MBP, OSX 10.9, Live 9.6 64bit, RME Fireface 800

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