Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

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mrbiggs
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Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by mrbiggs » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:41 pm

I have the Keylab mk2, which in the short time I've been using it seems to be a pretty terrific midi keyboard/controller. But I'm finding one thing about it that is driving me batty, and I don't know wether it's an Ableton thing or an Arturia thing. But I can't seem to find a way to map the knobs on the controller to Ableton's devices. In DAW mode, they seem to be hardwired to mixer pan (really? who needs this?) and in User mode, they can only be assigned CC numbers.
I've read a bit about custom scripts in Ableton, but I'm guessing that this would then override the rest of Arturia's mapping, and I'm not sure I want to do that.
Nor does it make sense to midi map each knob individually, since I'd be doing that every time I drop in a new device.
Since device mapping, and specifically the instrument rack macros (what used to be 'groups'), is dynamic and not assignable via CC, any idea how to go about this with the Keylab mk2?
(Every controller I know of or have used since like 2010 has done this. M-Audio Axiom, the Korg Nano series, even Arturia's original Keylabs and Beatstep things. Seems odd that they're focusing on the Mixer now.)

thanks
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doghouse
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by doghouse » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:43 pm

Whether the knobs map to the mixer or to rack macros is up to the script provided by Arturia. If that script is edited it will only affect the DAW mode, not the mode controlling the Arturia synths.

As to "why pan? who needs this?", well everyone doing actual mixing!!! Most controllers by default operate a DAW's mixer...regardless of the DAW. Pretty much all controllers can do levels and panning, some can also do sends. Some can switch to a mode mapping knobs to Live's rack macros.

In this day and age I'm surprised people still expect device control from generic controllers from third party mfrs (maybe because I've been using controllers for a long time). The mfrs all talk about integration with DAWs and buyers read far more into that than is actually there. Transport and mixer control is easy, it's device control that has always been the elusive goal.

Dedicated controllers exist for Live...Push, Launchpads, Launchkeys, APCs...and really are the way to go. It might seem crazy to pay $300 for an APC40 when you already own the Keylab but using the two side by side gives full control of the Arturia synths (Keylab) and Live (APC) without any mode switching or user programming required.

Novation has sold a number of generic controllers with Live device control support...SL, SL mkII (but not MkIII), Impulse, Nocturn. Of course, none of them offer direct control of Arturia's synths. That's just the way it is.

mrbiggs
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by mrbiggs » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:59 pm

Hey thanks for the reply.
I do actual mixing (for my own tracks, not others), but I've never needed my keyboard to edit the channel pan positions. I set them, done. On the other hand, I turn device knobs constantly, often to record automation for delays, filters, synths, etc etc. I don't get around much, so I guess it never occurred to me that others want to play with their pan knobs in the same way. I figured if one does actual mixing, one has an actual mixing console.
If one doesn't expect third party midi controllers to control one's DAW, then where would one be expecting that control to come from? My first controller was bought in 2005 which was well before rack macros and groups were introduced in Ableton. At the time, one had to midi map every single control. Things got better with Novation's weird wrapping, and M-Audio's silly Hyperlink. The way the original Keylab handled it was pretty nice. Seems like a step backward to not include it on Mk2.
That said, the best controller I use for this is Korg's Nanokontrol. It relies on a Remote User Script to work, and it works perfectly. This morning I wrote a simple test script for the Keylab Mk2 and it looks like this is going to be the way to go. Seems to pick up control of the blue hand device in KeyLab's 'User' mode, while DAW and Analog Lab mode continue to function as designed. It's not perfect yet but I'll finish it over the weekend.
Lastly, Arturia wrote back and said that they know this is an issue. They're waiting on Ableton to write the script. Huh.
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irwinfletcher
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by irwinfletcher » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:01 pm

I know this is a couple of months old but did you ever get this working with a custom script or one provided by arturia or ableton?

mrbiggs
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by mrbiggs » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:11 pm

I made my own script and have just been using that. It's working ok for me. I don't know if Arturia has updated anything.
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burbus
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by burbus » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:56 pm

mrbiggs wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:11 pm
I made my own script and have just been using that. It's working ok for me. I don't know if Arturia has updated anything.
hello, would be great to leverage your script! many thanks in advance.

mrbiggs
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by mrbiggs » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:11 pm

Yeah -- however it's best to make your own. Several reasons: There is nowhere on Ableton's forum to post files. I don't want to post it on Dropbox or my website with a public link here. Also, it requires you to choose some CC# which is up to you. So even if I posted my own, you would still have to open it up and probably change it to match your Keylab settings. So here is the instructions:

Ableton has simple instructions for using scripts here:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... ace-script

I occasionally get messaged asking what I did to get mine to work. I'll paste the instructions I always send here. Yo need to know how to use Arturia's MIDI utility to change the CC# on your Keylab. Then you use the script to match the CC#s.
You have to go into your Arturia Midi utility and set the encoder knobs and sliders for a User config to match what’s in the script. You have those three buttons in the center of the Keylab: Analog Lab, DAW, and USER. You’re going to use USER. If you haven’t used that Midi utility, figure that out. It’s pretty simple but at first can be confusing. So set up a “User 1” or whatever, and set the eight encoder knobs for CC 102-109.
This will allow you to control devices. It can seem random at times in use — like Ableton devices aren’t set up in eight linear knobs, right? So sometimes it’ll shift the kind of compression, or turn something on or off in EQ when expect something else. So most of the devices I use regularly, including third-party plug-ins, I’ve “grouped” so that I have that little rack of eight macros. That works as expected.

Now, I have the sliders set up to control the Sends on four channels. If you set up your eight sliders to be CC 52-59, this will work for you.
If that’s not what you want, you’ll need to dive in a bit and learn how to read this UserConfiguration.txt file so you can change it to what you want. Just remember that whatever you tell this to do, you have to tell the Analog Lab to do it too. The reason for that is that the default for the USER mode is the same as DAW mode, and it confuses the keyboard. Another weird choice by Arturia.

Once you get it installed and in place, you go to your MIDI preferences in Ableton and select “Keylab mkII User” the same way you’d select other Midi devices. This matches the name of the FOLDER in which the text file resides. The text filename itself cannot change.
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robotmartin
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by robotmartin » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:18 pm

Hi,

Can you share your plaintext UserConfiguration.txt here? I am having trouble automating the blue hand controls to the User mode of my KeyLab mkII 49. I can change the CC numbers in the midi control center and edit the .txt accordingly, the control surface shows up, but moving the controls has no effect. I wonder if the USB string (InputName / OutputName) is wrong. I see similar instructions across the web, but still missing something for the mkII and that works. I am on a Mac.

Thanks!
mrbiggs wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:11 pm
Yeah -- however it's best to make your own. Several reasons: There is nowhere on Ableton's forum to post files. I don't want to post it on Dropbox or my website with a public link here. Also, it requires you to choose some CC# which is up to you. So even if I posted my own, you would still have to open it up and probably change it to match your Keylab settings. So here is the instructions:

Ableton has simple instructions for using scripts here:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... ace-script

mrbiggs
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by mrbiggs » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:12 am

I’ll see if I can do this. I’m away from my laptop for a couple days so probably Tuesday.
Stay tuned.
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robotmartin
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by robotmartin » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:24 am

Thanks, it would be super helpful to see the contents of your UserConfiguration.txt.

mrbiggs
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by mrbiggs » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:32 pm

# Config File for User-defined Instant Mappings

# We assume that the controls on your MIDI controller
# send CCs (except for pads). All controls that do not have
# an explicit channel setting are expected to use the
# global channel. CCs & Notes are counted from 0-127
# and channels from 0-15.

[Globals]
# The channel that the controller should send on
GlobalChannel: 0
# If your controller is connected via USB, replace ControllerName
# with the name of the respective port. Live will then try to
# recognize the ports for you when you select your Instant-Mappings
InputName: Keylab Mk2 49 IN
OutputName: Keylab Mk2 49 OUT
# If your controller has pads that send notes, you can use them to
# play the visible pads in your DrumRacks. Just replace the -1 for
# the note (and channel) of the respective pad. The arrangement of
# the pads in the DrumRacks is as follows:
# 1 2 3 4
# 5 6 7 8
# 9 10 11 12
# 13 14 15 16
# (If you leave the channel of a pad at -1, Live will assume that
# the pad uses the global channel)
Pad1Note: -1
Pad2Note: -1
Pad3Note: -1
Pad4Note: -1
Pad5Note: -1
Pad6Note: -1
Pad7Note: -1
Pad8Note: -1
Pad9Note: -1
Pad10Note: -1
Pad11Note: -1
Pad12Note: -1
Pad13Note: -1
Pad14Note: -1
Pad15Note: -1
Pad16Note: -1
Pad1Channel: -1
Pad2Channel: -1
Pad3Channel: -1
Pad4Channel: -1
Pad5Channel: -1
Pad6Channel: -1
Pad7Channel: -1
Pad8Channel: -1
Pad9Channel: -1
Pad10Channel: -1
Pad11Channel: -1
Pad12Channel: -1
Pad13Channel: -1
Pad14Channel: -1
Pad15Channel: -1
Pad16Channel: -1

[DeviceControls]
# The Encoders will control the device parameters (you can also
# use knobs or sliders). Replace the -1's with the CCs sent by
# the respective controls on your controller. You can also set
# the channel for each controller if it differs from the global
# channel (if you leave the channel of an encoder at -1, Live
# will assume that the encoder uses the global channel).
Encoder1: 102
Encoder2: 103
Encoder3: 104
Encoder4: 105
Encoder5: 106
Encoder6: 107
Encoder7: 108
Encoder8: 109
EncoderChannel1: -1
EncoderChannel2: -1
EncoderChannel3: -1
EncoderChannel4: -1
EncoderChannel5: -1
EncoderChannel6: -1
EncoderChannel7: -1
EncoderChannel8: -1
# Enter the respective map mode for the encoders here. The following
# map modes are available:
# - Absolute
# - Absolute14Bit
# - LinearSignedBit
# - LinearSignedBit2
# - LinearTwoCompliment
# - LinearBinaryOffset
# - AccelSignedBit
# - AccelSignedBit2
# - AccelTwoCompliment
# - AccelBinaryOffset
# Consult the controller's documentation to find out which mode to use.
EncoderMapMode: Absolute
# Buttons used here are expected to not be toggles (i.e., sending
# value 0 every second time you press it).
Bank1Button: -1
Bank2Button: -1
Bank3Button: -1
Bank4Button: -1
Bank5Button: -1
Bank6Button: -1
Bank7Button: -1
Bank8Button: -1
NextBankButton: -1
PrevBankButton: -1
LockButton: -1

[MixerControls]
# Again enter the appropriate CCs for the respective controls.
# If all sliders use the global channel to send their data,
# you can leave the channels at -1. You can, of course, use
# encoders or knobs instead of sliders.
VolumeSlider1: -1
VolumeSlider2: -1
VolumeSlider3: -1
VolumeSlider4: -1
VolumeSlider5: -1
VolumeSlider6: -1
VolumeSlider7: -1
VolumeSlider8: -1
Slider1Channel: -1
Slider2Channel: -1
Slider3Channel: -1
Slider4Channel: -1
Slider5Channel: -1
Slider6Channel: -1
Slider7Channel: -1
Slider8Channel: -1
MasterVolumeSlider: 60
MasterSliderChannel: -1
Send1Knob1: 52
Send1Knob2: 54
Send1Knob3: 56
Send1Knob4: 58
Send1Knob5: -1
Send1Knob6: -1
Send1Knob7: -1
Send1Knob8: -1
Send2Knob1: 53
Send2Knob2: 55
Send2Knob3: 57
Send2Knob4: 59
Send2Knob5: -1
Send2Knob6: -1
Send2Knob7: -1
Send2Knob8: -1
TrackArmButton1: -1
TrackArmButton2: -1
TrackArmButton3: -1
TrackArmButton4: -1
TrackArmButton5: -1
TrackArmButton6: -1
TrackArmButton7: -1
TrackArmButton8: -1
VolumeMapMode: Absolute
SendsMapMode: Absolute

[TransportControls]
# The transport buttons are also expected not to be toggles.
StopButton: -1
PlayButton: -1
RecButton: -1
LoopButton: -1
RwdButton: -1
FfwdButton: -1
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robotmartin
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by robotmartin » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:05 am

Thanks a lot for sharing your file! I will give it a try.

american_sicko
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by american_sicko » Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:16 am

It's not in the manual, but this has been supported by arturia for a few years now. The "multi" button underneath the master volume fader cycles between four encoder modes--L/R pan, send A, send B, and device control.

mrbiggs
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Re: Arturia Keylab Mkii and Ableton device mapping

Post by mrbiggs » Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:54 pm

What's that now?
Underneath my master volume fader is the crossfader. A control-click gives me a choice of curves for this crossfader, but i don't see what you're describing. I always love learning about useful things that aren't in the manual.

(Edit: Ah i see -- you're talking about on the Keylab -- not on Ableton. Thanks for point this out. When this thread was started back in what, 2019, this did not happen.)
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