VST Parameter Changes Won't Update the Corresponding Device Macros

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UnderwaterSunlight
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:59 am
Location: House atop a Tree

VST Parameter Changes Won't Update the Corresponding Device Macros

Post by UnderwaterSunlight » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:53 pm

Long standing unexpected behavior (since at least Live 9) still present in Live 10.1 (Standard), likely also in Live 10.1.2b5:
If you change a parameter on a third-party VST GUI panel, the corresponding enclosing Ableton group device macro won't be updated.
I tested this in MacOS Mojave, 10.14.6, with Reaktor, Massive, OB-Xd and Tyrell VSTi synths. Possibly involves all 3rd party VSTs.

Steps to replicate the issue:
1) Drag VST (synth) to new MIDI track
2) Click the "Unfold Device Parameters" button on the device representation
3) Enter "Configure" mode
4) Add "CUTOFF" to device panel by moving the corresponding control on your VSTi synth GUI with your mouse
5) Disengage configure mode
6) Right-click Device Title Bar, and choose "Group"
7) Click on "Show Macro Controls" and engage the "Macro Map Mode" switch
8) Assign "CUTOFF" to Macro 1
9) Disengage "Macro Map Mode" switch
10) Move CUTOFF on your VSTi GUI panel with the mouse (or change synth to another patch)

Expected behavior: Macro control updates according to VSTi patch.
Observed behavior: Macro control doesn't react to VSTi panel changes.

Bug or feature?
The other way, it works: Change macro will update the corresponding VST GUI panel element.
Mac Pro 6,1 (Late 2013), 64 GB RAM, 256 GB PCIE SSD, 1TB data/projects SSD, MacOS 10.14 Mojave, Ableton 10 Standard, Komplete 7, Waves Silver, Steinberg UR22 mkII

jeblo05
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:35 pm

Re: VST Parameter Changes Won't Update the Corresponding Device Macros

Post by jeblo05 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:42 pm

I have seen this behavior with Komplete Kontrol, while flicking through the presets.
It does not happen with all presets/loaded modules, though.

Same problem occurs in Bitwig, so it’s KK which is not updating the value/state to the hosts.

Da hand
Posts: 1614
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 8:38 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: VST Parameter Changes Won't Update the Corresponding Device Macros

Post by Da hand » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:08 pm

UnderwaterSunlight wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:53 pm
Bug or feature?
The other way, it works: Change macro will update the corresponding VST GUI panel element.
Neither Bug or Feature, just the way things work in MIDI assignments.

The approach is top-down, not down-up. This way you can override the paramater settings further down the chain (Cutoff, for example) without affecting thing further up (the Macro, for example). Then when you change the Macro, it retakes control of the Cutoff parameter.

To drive this point further, the Macro can be assigned to multiple parameters at once. Say the Macro is assigned to the Cutoff and 5 other parameters on your synth. Should your Cutoff changes change all the other 5 parameters too? No. You only wanted to change the cutoff temporarily without affecting al the other 5 parameters. If you want to change all 6 parameters at once, just move the Macro :wink:

This works the same way for hardware midi controllers as well.

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