Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded (Solved)

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
nc2010
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am

Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded (Solved)

Post by nc2010 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:58 pm

Hi,
I have exactly the same problem than this:
Zyko1 wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:41 am
MIDI goes out from Ableton MIDI-track through USB-cable to a MOTU Midiexpress 128, from there throgh midi-cable to a synthesizer. Audio goes out from synthesizer through audiocable into FireFace UCX, from there through USB into Ableton audiotrack. All audio-clips I record that way are 20-30ms OFF the grid! But with my audio-buffer-settings it should be only around 7-8ms!
Why is that and how to improve it?

It seems no help if I play with the track-delay-settings (just below every volume-fader), I cannot hear any audible difference when changing these settings.
For me it's:

Ableton MIDI track ---> MOTU 828 mk3 ---MIDI---> synth ---audio---> MOTU 828 mk3 --> Ableton

Every clip always has a 30 ms silence beginning / latency. So it's all the time off the grid, and I have to manually recrop every clip.

I've tried everything:
  • Monitoring off
  • Options > Reduced latency when monitoring (should not change anything since monitoring is off)
  • Options > Delay compensation
  • play with track delays (little setting below each fader), both positive or negative values ; I tried the same for Master track
  • Preferences > Audio > Driver Error compensation (I tried both +30 and -30ms, +60, -60ms, etc.)
  • Preferences > MIDI > Output > little arrow on the Output device > MIDI clock sync delay > +30 or -30 ms
I think I've tried everything but it's always the same thing:

Image

Of course I'm on ASIO with lowest latency, and the synth envelope has a very short attack, etc.
It's the same with every synth / sampler / any external instrument etc.

Any idea?
Last edited by nc2010 on Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gbert
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:02 am

Re: Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded

Post by gbert » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:24 am

Do you have any plugins loaded onto any other tracks, including the master track? And this question applies even if the plugins are disabled. I’ve seen a large delay when there is any other delay-causing plugin on any track in the project. This happens even if the plugin is active. For example, do you have an instance of Ozone loaded to your master track, even if the Ozone instance is disabled?

nc2010
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am

Re: Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded

Post by nc2010 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:38 am

No, no plugin. It's an empty project except one track armed for recording.

So the consequence is currently that I have to manually crop all clips after recording...

jonljacobi
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded

Post by jonljacobi » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:46 am

MIDI does have lag. I don’t know about USB, but standard serial MIDI was about 5 ms each leg last I heard. Doesn’t seem like it should all add up to 30ms, but...

What’s the latency when you just play the synth?

nc2010
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am

Re: Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded

Post by nc2010 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:58 am

Maybe it comes from MIDI...
When I play synth, the latency is nearly 0 (monitoring off), and maybe ~10ms or 15ms if monitoring is on

gbert
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:02 am

Re: Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded

Post by gbert » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:55 pm

Do you have another DAW you can try to see if it’s happening there also? That would rule out anything related to the audio interface and external hardware.

On that note, make sure there are no DSP effects running on that audio input channel on the MOTU.

nc2010
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am

Re: Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded

Post by nc2010 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:29 pm

Solved!

In fact I used a specific routing inside Ableton (tracks rerouted to a group, and then this group used as an input for other tracks :lol: a complex thing, and this introduced latency).

Now solved by using this setting on my MOTU:

Image

Now I can enable all inputs on MIX BUS 3, and use this "Mix of all inputs" as input 13/14 in Ableton. Benefit: If I choose 13/14 as input in Ableton, I get every instrument connected to my MOTU arriving in this input :)

Tested, and now, no more latency.

It was a phone call worth having to the (great) MOTU tech support phone number in USA!

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 1680
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded (Solved)

Post by [jur] » Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:25 pm

That's very interesting.
I never took the time to study this Mix thing on my Ultralite as I thought it was mainly for standalone use.
But what you just said triggers my curiosity a lot.
I do use the channels 13/14 (or S/PDIF 1-2) as a way to sample things from e.g the internet into Live.
I just learn an interesting thing today, thank you ;-)

Cool that you've found a workaround but that still doesn't explain why you had this much latency.
Ableton Forum Moderator

nc2010
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am

Re: Always a 30 ms latency when audio clip is recorded (Solved)

Post by nc2010 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:30 am

[jur] wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:25 pm
Cool that you've found a workaround but that still doesn't explain why you had this much latency.
Here are more details:

Abandoned method (that caused the latency):

Image

Solution:

Image

Post Reply