Using XLN XO with DrumRack on Push 1

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Ben_Binary
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Using XLN XO with DrumRack on Push 1

Post by Ben_Binary » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:51 am

Hey is anyone using the XLN XO Drum VST on a DrumRack with a Push-1 ?

I tried setting it up so that the Push controls the VST via a drumrack on another track.
The lock control surface option isnt working for me so that I can control the DrumRack on Track one with the push and edit the VST on another track with my mouse without the Push control changing to the notes control of the VST.


ANy Ideas wuld be great - tried options in settings off for selecting etc.

Using Live 10 and Push 1
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

ShelLuser
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Re: Using XLN XO with DrumRack on Push 1

Post by ShelLuser » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:57 am

Like so:

Image

The trick is to check your configuration and make sure that VST windows aren't automatically hidden. Not sure if this is the default or not but if you have that setup then the VST window disappears the moment you select another track. Disable the option and you get the effect I'm demonstrating here. I have the drumrack 'mode' selected on my Push but I'm actually using that to play on Battery.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

jestermgee
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Re: Using XLN XO with DrumRack on Push 1

Post by jestermgee » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:52 am

Any reason to have it on 2 tracks?

Why not just create a drum rack with a loaded VST plugin on a single track? You can then also create dummy chain devices and "groups" to group all your kicks, snares etc together and colour the pads then by using external instruments and setting your drum plugin to use multi-outs, you can also create dedicated audio channels for all your grouped elements.

Video showing all of this is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C74ty7w26jY

ShelLuser
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Re: Using XLN XO with DrumRack on Push 1

Post by ShelLuser » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:40 am

jestermgee wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:52 am
Any reason to have it on 2 tracks?

Why not just create a drum rack with a loaded VST plugin on a single track?
Bit of a vague description, not sure what you're getting at here. You can't have 2 instruments on one track, but I guess you know that.

I suppose an alternative is to use an instrument rack and load in the drum kit and Battery onto different chains. But the problem with that is lack of control: rack support on Push is plain out poor.

Having 2 tracks means you select the track with Battery and you have instant control over the VST. You then select the track with the drumrack and well, same deal: you can immediately play but more importantly also shift towards another section. This is quite crucial with an instrument such as Battery.

If you roll it all up in one rack you have to go through quite a few hoops before you can select other devices. Press down the rack button, select the chain you need to control... way too tedious and not useful at all. Fun in theory or in a studio (?), not while playing. Because then speed is key.

(edit) not sure where the comment about pad colours is coming from because obviously you can colour your pads if you want to. In fact, it'll be much easier this way as well.

(edit2) I really hope you're not suggesting to load multiple instances of the VST on each drumpad because that would create some serious (and rather unusable) overkill.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

jestermgee
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Re: Using XLN XO with DrumRack on Push 1

Post by jestermgee » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:39 am

ShelLuser wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:40 am

Bit of a vague description, not sure what you're getting at here. You can't have 2 instruments on one track, but I guess you know that.

I suppose an alternative is to use an instrument rack and load in the drum kit and Battery onto different chains. But the problem with that is lack of control: rack support on Push is plain out poor.

Having 2 tracks means you select the track with Battery and you have instant control over the VST. You then select the track with the drumrack and well, same deal: you can immediately play but more importantly also shift towards another section. This is quite crucial with an instrument such as Battery.

If you roll it all up in one rack you have to go through quite a few hoops before you can select other devices. Press down the rack button, select the chain you need to control... way too tedious and not useful at all. Fun in theory or in a studio (?), not while playing. Because then speed is key.

(edit) not sure where the comment about pad colours is coming from because obviously you can colour your pads if you want to. In fact, it'll be much easier this way as well.

(edit2) I really hope you're not suggesting to load multiple instances of the VST on each drumpad because that would create some serious (and rather unusable) overkill.
Probably much of the questioning could have been answered via the linked video...
Bit of a vague description, not sure what you're getting at here. You can't have 2 instruments on one track, but I guess you know that.
Not sure who is mentioning 2 instruments on a single track. The OP (as I understand the question, could be wrong but this is why I opened with a simple question) is trying to create a drum rack to control a second track. I assume so they can use the drum rack layout but instead, trigger a VST plugin. It is possible to just load a single VST instance into a drum rack and map the drum pads range to the VST instrument range, hence converting it to a "drum machine" for use with Push sequencing. I simply read it as the user trying to achieve this, but in a more complicated way using multiple tracks (which is not needed)
If you roll it all up in one rack you have to go through quite a few hoops before you can select other devices. Press down the rack button, select the chain you need to control... way too tedious and not useful at all. Fun in theory or in a studio (?), not while playing. Because then speed is key.
Now i'm confused with what you are stating here. What becomes tedious and what are the hoops? I assume all we really want is to operate the sounds from drum pads. It is still possible to host automate whatever in the same way or create a rack and macros but most of the time there is not a need to really drill into settings for a drum kit.
(edit) not sure where the comment about pad colours is coming from because obviously you can colour your pads if you want to. In fact, it'll be much easier this way as well.
Not sure how much time you have spent with drum racks and Push etc but without having something actually loaded onto a pad, you cannot name it or set a pad colour. When you have a VST within a drum rack the pads are all empty and simply send MIDI ranged noites to the VST loaded in the rack so there is nothing to configure. You need to add something to the pads and it was actually Abletons Jur who suggested to me years ago when I mentioned I used a silent WAV file that I should use Chain Devices which is what I was recommending.
(edit2) I really hope you're not suggesting to load multiple instances of the VST on each drumpad because that would create some serious (and rather unusable) overkill.
As has probably been made clear, this was not what I was suggesting. I have a pretty good handle on how things work.

If I am mistaken as to the needs the OP has, sorry for the wrong steer but it does sound like what you want can be done on a single track with a bit of work and the vid I linked to may be of some help.

ShelLuser
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Re: Using XLN XO with DrumRack on Push 1

Post by ShelLuser » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:32 am

jestermgee wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:39 am
Probably much of the questioning could have been answered via the linked video...
Yah, I didn't watch that. IMO youtube videos are overrated, especially when it comes to explaining stuff. I've experienced too many self-promoting youtubers so I simply don't bother at all anymore to follow such links.
jestermgee wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:39 am
Not sure who is mentioning 2 instruments on a single track.
You did when you mentioned:
jestermgee wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:52 am
Why not just create a drum rack with a loaded VST plugin on a single track?
Of course that is assuming that you didn't try to suggest to load a VST instance onto every drum pad. I didn't spot any mention of an instrument rack in there and since multiple instances would be pretty silly within this context I deducted the above.
jestermgee wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:39 am
It is possible to just load a single VST instance into a drum rack and map the drum pads range to the VST instrument range, hence converting it to a "drum machine" for use with Push sequencing. I simply read it as the user trying to achieve this, but in a more complicated way using multiple tracks (which is not needed)
Sounds like a lot of hassle to me, especially if you keep the issues with racks and the Push in mind.

(edit)

Meh, I can't cross out text in here so I'll just have to fake history, not a fan of that but oh well...
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

jestermgee
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Re: Using XLN XO with DrumRack on Push 1

Post by jestermgee » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:37 am

Yah, I didn't watch that. IMO youtube videos are overrated, especially when it comes to explaining stuff. I've experienced too many self-promoting youtubers so I simply don't bother at all anymore to follow such links.
Hmm, that's kind of pigeonholing everyone based on some poor searching results on your part tho. I have no issue at all with someone that offers free advice and guidance doing some self promoting. Me as the intelligent user can easily switch videos or just walk away when I feel it is unwarranted.

If you are willing to simply rule out an entire (huge) resource in the world based on a few bad search results you are doing a bit of an injustice to yourself. Lots one can learn but your loss I guess, just don't make the assumption that everyone out there fits this narrow view because it takes a bit of effort to create useful videos to help people when asking for nothing in return based on years of being asked the same questions and getting tired of writing the same answer.

Maybe to debate this solution you should have a look because it might help to figure out what i'm on about and if nothing else, help you explain to me where this solution fails for the OP's requirements.
jestermgee wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:39 am
Not sure who is mentioning 2 instruments on a single track.

You did when you mentioned:
jestermgee wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:52 am
Why not just create a drum rack with a loaded VST plugin on a single track?
Of course that is assuming that you didn't try to suggest to load a VST instance onto every drum pad. I didn't spot any mention of an instrument rack in there and since multiple instances would be pretty silly within this context I deducted the above.
See, I never mentioned multiple instruments on the one track. I simply suggested to ADD the VST to the drum rack which is adding it as a destination for the midi data to go to.... It simply redirects the midi output of the drum rack to the VST that is loaded within it, like how the OP is trying to do, but within a single track and it is a single device (wrapped in a drum rack). Just 1 instance.... I got so tired of explaining this exact thing (as it is a bit hard to convey without images and detailed explaining) because I have done so for 5 years so I made a video to demonstrate it. As mentioned tho, I could be misunderstanding the requirements here and maybe it doesn't apply.

The original thread I created about this howto back in 2013 is here (tho images have gone):
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=197796

I created the video because digging up that thread then explaining in every new thread the differences was tiresome.
Sounds like a lot of hassle to me, especially if you keep the issues with racks and the Push in mind.
It's really not a hassle at all but it's aimed at the sole purpose of allowing the playing and sequencing of a drum instrument using a drum rack on Push, not for diving into every parameter and tweaking it like a VST instrument.

Anyway, if the info provided is of use to the OP then great, if not then no stress.

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