Ableton/Traktor/Link latency issue - is there a vst that outputs midi sync?

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orbita
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Ableton/Traktor/Link latency issue - is there a vst that outputs midi sync?

Post by orbita » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:13 am

I am trying to route the decks from Traktor into Ableton and have them play along in sync with loops in Ableton.

I have routed the Traktor tracks into Ableton using several methods (Soundflower, Loopback and the loopback feature of RME Totalmix). Ableton and Traktor are synced using Ableton Sync.

The audio that comes into Ableton from Traktor is always ahead - the amount that it is ahead seems to depends partly on the buffer size and the partly on the latency of plugins used in Ableton.

I think this is the same problem as synchronising external midi sequencers with Ableton which is only possible to do properly using Audio->midi sync convertors like the ERM Multiclock, SMD Acme ES Usamo.

I believe the problem is that the LINK, like the midi clock, synchronises at the wrong "end" of the PDC (delay compensation) window so it can't compensate the returning signal correctly because it can't move the future backwards.

The ERM, SMD, ES solutions all revolve around adding a plugin to an audio channel that outputs a sample accurate tick to an external device at the "right" end of the PDC window. This allows the external midi sequencers to be slightly ahead of the delay compensated signal (what we hear) and that can the return signal can be correctly adjusted for in a external FX return.

Ultimately I think Ableton should add an option to change the sync type for both Ableton Link and Midi sync that changes to the other end of the PDC window. I believe this would remove the need for these external hardware solutions.

In the meantime, I'm wondering if there is any software equivalent of ERM multiclock that I can use to send a properly compensated midi clock to Traktor?

Is anyone aware of either a VST that can send a compensated midi clock or some external software that can convert an audio trigger and emit a clock over a virtual interface?

pottering
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Re: Ableton/Traktor/Link latency issue - is there a vst that outputs midi sync?

Post by pottering » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:36 pm

Ableton Link only syncs the BPM, "PDC" doesn't matter for it. It is not MIDI either, so "midi clock" also has nothing to do with it.

Soundflower (or any other virtual audio cable) is EXTERNAL AUDIO, so it doesn't report latency to Live (or any other software).

(It may also count as "driver that doesn't report latency properly", if Soundflower has latency but doesn't report it to Live.)

You have to measure the latency manually, just like with hardware and other external audio that has latency.

Try these tips (especially External Instrument device):

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... with-MIDI-

yur2die4
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Re: Ableton/Traktor/Link latency issue - is there a vst that outputs midi sync?

Post by yur2die4 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:47 am

Do you actually process the Traktor stuff through Live? It seems like it’d make life easier if you just had Traktor go out on its own to a mixer, and Live go out separately. The trouble starts when you start routing Traktor into Live.

If you use midi clock, there are settings in MIDI Preferences for adjusting latency.

But this will probably affect ‘performance’, as in, you trigger things in Traktor and they feel kind of ‘off’. Also, midi clock can be a little messy for big tempo changes.

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