Are clips clones?

[boogle]

Hi, from Cubase here and it has 'ghost' parts where one part can be copied but retains the edits of the original.

Are clips like this? For instance if I drag clip A from the library to multiple midi tracks OR
duplicate/copy clip A in session view to multiple empty clips/midi channels. Will editing one clip affect all?

[Da hand]

No, each clip is its own entity entirely. Editing one clip will not change any other.

The only exception is in audio clips, if you replace the audio source (the actual audio file) they are all referencing.

[boogle]

Thanks.

But is there any workaround here? Coming from Cubase I am used to ghost parts option.

So if in Live I create different scenes made of clips and wish to tweak a clip that was used in the parts of the different arrangements, do I really have to edit individually every one?

[TLW]

Edit one clip and copy it over the others.

“Clones” can be a problem as much as a blessing. Sonar handles its equivalent of duplicated clips as clones by default and it’s easy to accidentally edit a whole bunch of clips when you only intended to edit one of them but forgot to unlink all its clones.

[boogle]

Edit one clip and copy it over the others.

Got it, I think. I think I have understood you - Live offers no clip cloning abilities at all.

Cheers

[boogle]

PS @Ableton it would be immensely practical and great for workflow to simply allow this cloning, having large amounts of swapping out could be a deal-breaker

[jonljacobi]

Just because something is great for your workflow, doesn’t make it great or necessary for other users workflows. This thread seems like it wasn’t so much a legitimate question, but a lead in for your suggestion.

[boogle]

Just because something is great for your workflow, doesn’t make it great or necessary for other users workflows. This thread seems like it wasn’t so much a legitimate question, but a lead in for your suggestion.

@jonlijacob well that was a helpful reply.

Make it worse your assumption is false, it wasn't a lead in, I've been using Live for just days and also simply wasn't sure. Way to go with dealing with new peops also trying to find a workaround. Further have you been paying attention to the interweb?

Gearslutz can't believe it doesn't have it

or here

Clone clips request

or this

More clone clips requests

or even him/her

And again, same thing

I could quite litrerally go on, this really is a thing.

PS for anyone who doesn't know the only workaround I have found is the M4L addon, it's a start, but several caveats in it's workflow to take note of first.

http://jgarcia.hungry.jp/downloads/alia ... _polymer=1

[jonljacobi]

Yeah, well your assertion that this would be great for everyone’s workflow and the lack could be a deal breaker was pretty presumptuous for a new user. Maybe spend a couple of weeks with the program before you start with the advice. Perhaps start with reading the users guide.

[Mark Williams]

Hardly a thing, and hardly a deal breaker as you put it, the majority happy with the way it is. Maybe you should learn and adapt rather than trying to get Ableton to do something that other DAWs may or may not do.

[jestermgee]

While it’s hardly a deal breaker the op does have a valid request that would be very handy. I would love to see linked/ghost clips as it would make managing things like drum tracks much easier. It is possible to work around this like it’s possible to work around the lack of vocal comping but it would be welcome.

[boogle]

Yeah, well your assertion that this would be great for everyone’s workflow and the lack could be a deal breaker was pretty presumptuous for a new user. Maybe spend a couple of weeks with the program before you start with the advice. Perhaps start with reading the users guide.

Funny, because even after showing you multiple requests by seasoned users, on different sites and times, you still suggest this is the presumptuous attitude of a newbie.

Maybe this is where we should resign from engaging further.

[boogle]

Now, in all fairness, it is true that if you became very familiar with one DAW then it can be tricky to get used to another. That part is absolutely true and it's something I still experience myself (somewhat daily) when I move my focus between Live, Reason and/or Maschine. But I fully agree with Jon that this really looks like something more than simply asking a question.

It's not as if this feature is a big deal or anything. For all I know it was one user who wrote all those posts and then the quantity aspect suddenly breaks down. I'm not saying this is what happened, but quantity definitely doesn't say anything about quality

Now, this isn't merely a rant about new people who approach Live in the wrong way, I like to do more than that.

So, the issue at hand is one MIDI clip which can be used in multiple places, right?

In short: I can set up an arrangement (x amount of tracks which go on for x bars) and then treat that arrangement as a single entity which I can draw into my sequencer. This allows me to use my material within separate places on the timeline. It's not actually the same as cloning individual clips but there's definitely a similarity here.

A workflow which can very much adapt to your preferences, but eventually you will come across specific features (or lack thereof) which define Live. In which case I think it's not Live which needs to change, but your approach and mindset.

Firstly thank you ShelLuser, in your detailed answer. In fact though I'm not sure if it's the same thing, it's the kind of answer that might help some.

I also agree different approaches for different tools, cannot argue there.

May I though agree to disagree that a. It's not a big deal for some and b. the veracity of the links shared. I didn't make those up. Those are users more familiar with live than myself sharing their thoughts, TBH I'm not sure if we should question the quality of their requests because as you have put quite well, you (and others joining this thread) haven't missed this feature. I can concede that you don't need it, that's clear. But similarly there are others who do, and equally so.

May not post again or often, a couple hints that I have an agenda is a couple hints too many for me,
never actually had that before.

That being said, if you're going to disagree as you have, then thanks again for at least trying to answer the question, and in so much detail too. May have to try and wrap my head around it now.

[boogle]

While it’s hardly a deal breaker the op does have a valid request that would be very handy. I would love to see linked/ghost clips as it would make managing things like drum tracks much easier. It is possible to work around this like it’s possible to work around the lack of vocal comping but it would be welcome.

Thanks, is your workaround similar to the one posted above by ShelLuser?

[jestermgee]

While it’s hardly a deal breaker the op does have a valid request that would be very handy. I would love to see linked/ghost clips as it would make managing things like drum tracks much easier. It is possible to work around this like it’s possible to work around the lack of vocal comping but it would be welcome.

Thanks, is your workaround similar to the one posted above by ShelLuser?

Ha, No. That doesn't address the issue, just allows MIDI to xmit to multiple channels, not the same thing.

The issue is very simple. Just like making a 4 bar loop clip and simply "stretching" that over a range of 16 bars it simply repeats the 4 bars over that range. If you make a change in the 4 bar loop, it affects the whole 16 bars. This is perfect in Live BUT the issue at hand which people have been wanting a solution for a decade+ is when you duplicate a clip and place it elsewhere in the timeline it is now a "duplicate" and does not reference the original so changing all the duplicates if you need becomes cumbersome to copy/paste throughout the whole project.

The idea of cloned/ghost clips is simply a reference to the original and a change to ANY of these affects ALL of them equally. If you want anything to not be affected you simply make a copy not a clone.

That's the clarification of the problem...

My "solution" to this is just a simple workaround using clip names and colours. I just get into the habbiot of colour coding everything in my timeline so if I duplicate a clip and want it to maintain the same exact structure as the original, I keep it at the same colour. If I want to change a part and add, for instance, a small fill or bridge or something I immediately change the colour and I have my own colours for different types of events (such as sweep ins/outs, fills, bridges etc)

This is as simple as it gets so if I decide I want to make a change to the hats in a track for instance I know exactly which clips I can immediatly just copy/paste to and which ones I need to manually work with because they differ.