Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:01 pm

Ableton,

the GUI lags are absolutely unacceptable! How long we have to wait until the GUI does not lag while recording???

It's been months or years and the issue is still present! I am seriously running out of patience!

How am I supposed to actually record my live jams when the GUI starts lagging the moment I start recording in an empty project??

Not to mention that the larger or complicated the project gets or when the arrangement grows to an hour or more and it becomes absolutely impossible to control Live! I am then not able to fluidly adjust any parameter because the GUI lags the mouse movement and parameter changes too!

Seriously, any news on this?? Finally??

I payed a lot of money for a product I cannot fully use.

I have even built a new powerful computer dedicated just for music making and it's still the same issue!

What am I supposed to do now when a software for top money practically does not allow me to do the most basic thing a music making should do flawlessly - recording.

I am really frustrated and desperate. Please, fix this ASAP. F**k the new features, this issue has to have an absolute priority.

I have even spent months with Ableton support about this issue and they were not able to help me. The support asked the most basic stuff Microsoft support would do. Useless.

EDIT:

OK, here is the debug project, guys:

I would be grateful if you could record it on video so that we can see how much variability this issue has.

https://tinyurl.com/qpgtjkn

Instructions:

1) Go to Session view
2) Run the scene "DEBUG"
3) Everything should be fluid, no lags
4) With the scene running, start the arrangement recording from the session view (the timeline should be 141.X.X when the recording starts - this could be important, so please, pay attention to that).
5) Observe the lags.
6) Try to selectively remove automation, routing, FX etc and see how much it helps.
7) Report here, please, thank you!

My video of the problem, reproduced on three different machines with sufficient specs:

https://tinyurl.com/r5omk6m
Last edited by TRBTBEI on Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

Mark Williams
Posts: 380
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Location: Kent

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by Mark Williams » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:17 pm

No issue here.
Live 10,Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, NDLR, Bass Station2, MircoFreak, Alesis Multi Strike Pad

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:38 pm

^^ How big are your projects? How many tracks and how much routing? How much automation within clips etc? How long jams do you record at once? Thanks

Mark Williams
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by Mark Williams » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:13 pm

TRBTBEI wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:01 pm
Ableton,

the GUI lags are absolutely unacceptable! How long we have to wait until the GUI does not lag while recording???

It's been months or years and the issue is still present! I am seriously running out of patience!

How am I supposed to actually record my live jams when the GUI starts lagging the moment I start recording in an empty project??

You said it starts the moment you start in an empty project?

My projects always vary, so hard to say, I have used Ableton all day with no lagging as you put it.
Live 10,Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, NDLR, Bass Station2, MircoFreak, Alesis Multi Strike Pad

jestermgee
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Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by jestermgee » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:06 pm

TRBTBEI wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:38 pm
^^ How big are your projects? How many tracks and how much routing? How much automation within clips etc? How long jams do you record at once? Thanks
Might ask you the same question along with pc specs etc. I too have never experienced this issue and have used Live now for 10 years on 5 different systems now.

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:48 pm

Mark Williams wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:13 pm
TRBTBEI wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:01 pm
Ableton,

the GUI lags are absolutely unacceptable! How long we have to wait until the GUI does not lag while recording???

It's been months or years and the issue is still present! I am seriously running out of patience!

How am I supposed to actually record my live jams when the GUI starts lagging the moment I start recording in an empty project??

You said it starts the moment you start in an empty project?

My projects always vary, so hard to say, I have used Ableton all day with no lagging as you put it.
It starts the moment I start recording in whatever project I currently am. With empty projects the lag is barely noticeable but indicates clear performance issues under the hood. The bigger the project the worse the lag. It often comes to the point of me not being able to control live whenever the project is recording something. Huge lags (no hyperbole).

I have been messing with one debug project I have and it seems that "complicated" routing causes massive performance issues for Live. Also certain automations have huge impact on the performance, dunno why. Also position in the arrangement while recording seems to have an impact.

See video here:

https://tinyurl.com/r5omk6m

Notice how after I remove certain automations the GUI performance got noticeably better.
Last edited by TRBTBEI on Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:53 pm

jestermgee wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:06 pm
TRBTBEI wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:38 pm
^^ How big are your projects? How many tracks and how much routing? How much automation within clips etc? How long jams do you record at once? Thanks
Might ask you the same question along with pc specs etc. I too have never experienced this issue and have used Live now for 10 years on 5 different systems now.
I had no problems like this in Live 8. It started with Live 9 at the end of it's life and continues in Live 10.

My specs:

ASUS PRIME Z390-A
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9700 CPU @ 3.00GHz
NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030
16 GB DDR4 SDRAM
Samsung SSD 850 EVO 1TB

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:55 pm

Btw the video was made on my notebook. I now have a much more powerful machine optimized for music making and the issue is the same.

Overall I have tested it on 3 separate machines (!). 2 of them clean install Windows 10, 1 Windows 7.

jestermgee
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Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by jestermgee » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:08 pm

Yeah no idea personally, have never had an issue like that. Does seem graphics related and not sure how huge your project is but I have created some pretty big projects and not had that kind of issue myself.

However, it could be a plugin you use. I had an issue with a plugin that was designed to detect chords. As soon as I added it into a project it caused everything to become very unresponsive. Since there are few to no posts with people having the same issue and you have the same issue over multiple machines, could be a plugin you are using. I'd start with a project that has issues and start with any plugins that are not popular with users and especially if you have any non-legit plugins, take them out the mix. If you have any Max devices also look at them.

Try a test with a blank slate with no plugins and add tracks only with ableton devices. There will be a fix but not sure it is something you should wait for Ableton to address.
Last edited by jestermgee on Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:11 pm

jestermgee wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:08 pm
Yeah no idea personally, have never had an issue like that. Does seem graphics related and not sure how huge your project is but I have created some pretty big projects and not had that kind of issue myself.
But why would a graphics related problem be solved by removing automation or routings? Does not make sense to me.

I can share the project with you, guys, if you are interested to test it on your machines. It would be interesting to see if you can reproduce the problem based on the video. What do you think?

jestermgee
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Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by jestermgee » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:17 pm

Edited while you replied...
jestermgee wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:08 pm
However, it could be a plugin you use. I had an issue with a plugin that was designed to detect chords. As soon as I added it into a project it caused everything to become very unresponsive. Since there are few to no posts with people having the same issue and you have the same issue over multiple machines, could be a plugin you are using. I'd start with a project that has issues and start with any plugins that are not popular with users and especially if you have any non-legit plugins, take them out the mix. If you have any Max devices also look at them.

Try a test with a blank slate with no plugins and add tracks only with ableton devices. There will be a fix but not sure it is something you should wait for Ableton to address.
But why would a graphics related problem be solved by removing automation or routings? Does not make sense to me.
Why would a GPU affect an audio applications performance period... but it can.

Could be anything outside of what we understand. One thing is to never assume it isn't something unless you can prove it concretely. Could be a poorly coded plugin that consumes GPU cycles to redraw controls or something as automation occurs even when not displayed. No idea, but based on the video, there is no load issue on your CPU and the issue I assume does not affect your audio, just the display. Not sure what kind of things you disabled in windows but maybe you have disabled some critical display drivers or something or the mode you are running in isn't compatible. Live uses a decent GPU chunk to run so you need to make sure your drivers are all up to date and working. Kind of looks like you may be using generic windows drivers for the GPU and not Nvidia drivers?

TRBTBEI
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Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:21 pm

I repeat, I have tested the debug project on three separate machines with identical results.

Anyway, I have an official NVIDIA driver.

There are no VST plugins in the debug version of the project. Only official Ableton devices. Not even M4L devices. I have been told to remove them before I sent the project to Ableton support so this variable was sorted out.

EDIT:

And yes, the audio works without issues when the project lags. But it's impossible to edit sequences with mouse for example and Push 2 is getting overwhelmed and laggy too when I tested it with the project before. Must try Push 2 with the latest Ableton build but the project lags the same nevertheless.

TRBTBEI
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:26 pm

I still offer you the debug project for you to test it in your environment. Maybe we can find something Ableton support would be willing to investigate when they don't have to do the analysis themselves...

jestermgee
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Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by jestermgee » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:38 pm

Maybe just post a link to your test project so others can give it a go and detail what exactly it is that you have in the project.

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
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Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:01 am

OK, here is the debug project, guys:

I would be grateful if you could record it on video so that we can see how much variability this issue has.

https://tinyurl.com/qpgtjkn

Instructions:

1) Go to Session view
2) Run the scene "DEBUG"
3) Everything should be fluid, no lags
4) With the scene running, start the arrangement recording from the session view (the timeline should be 141.X.X when the recording starts - this could be important, so please, pay attention to that).
5) Observe the lags.
6) Try to selectively remove automation, routing, FX etc and see how much it helps.
7) Report here, please, thank you!
Last edited by TRBTBEI on Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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