Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Sat May 09, 2020 2:10 pm

Wow, I have just reproduced this issue in Live 9.1.10 64bit.

I have basically reworked the project from scratch for Live 9.1.10 while trying to do it as true to the original as possible in the most significant aspects (structure, routing, device chains etc.).

This result surprised me a lot. The issue seems not as severe in 9.1.10 (one must remember that it is not possible to reproduce it exactly because the devices are different) yet still clearly apparent and problematic.

Will try to reproduce it in Live 8 when possible.

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Sat May 09, 2020 2:20 pm

More results (this thread will become a diary of sort):

Even if I delete most of the devices from the Live 9 version of the project and keep only the basic instruments so that I can route MIDI somewhere the issue is still clearly apparent.

I am starting to have a strong suspicion that this issue is rooted somewhere in how Live handles track arming.

I thought automation has something to do with the issue but that seems not to be the case as I have no automation in the Live 9 version of the project.

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Sat May 09, 2020 2:31 pm

In Live 9.1.10 the issue almost completely disappears after I disable all audio tracks arming while MIDI tracks don't contribute that much to the problem.

In Live 10.1.9 disabling audio tracks arming doesn't do much. Only after I disable all arming in the project the problem disappears.

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Sat May 09, 2020 2:49 pm

Update:

Reproduced the issue in Live 8.4.2 64bit. Didn't even have to add any device into the project. Simply arming six audio tracks and start arrangement recording was enough for the issue to become apparent (subtle but clearly visible).

This is amazing (meaning "horrible").

So the issue is there for at least 7 years...

TRBTBEI
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by TRBTBEI » Sat May 09, 2020 3:25 pm

kinkajou wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:14 am
very dumb question, but these issues i know from my very first steps with music making on PC years ago... ;)

What soundcard do you use?
Is ASIO configured correctly in the Live preferences?
Wow, kinkajou, I will have to at least partly apologize for my initial reaction towards your post!

ASIO buffer size do have a significant impact on the GUI lag but only in Ableton Live 8.4.2 64bit (dunno why). The smaller it is the quicker the GUI refresh it seems. Buffer size of 32 basically solves the GUI lag issue in Live 8 in my audio tracks arming test. However this buffer size is unrealistically small for most purposes so this is not a true solution. I don't know any other DAW that would have this problem with GUI connected to buffer size while recording armed tracks into arrangement. If one records only to session clips arming the tracks has no impact whatsoever.

However in Live 10 the buffer size has no visible impact at all. The GUI is still choppy until I disable arming on all tracks (not only the audio tracks).

So a summary of what we know so far.

These are the factors from which all of them must be true in order to cause the problem with the severity I have demonstrated in the video:
  • Armed audio and/or midi tracks
  • Recording into the arrangement
On the other hand these are some of the usual suspects which have basically no impact on the issue in Live 10:
  • Buffer size
  • CPU utilization and disk utilization
  • A quantity of devices
  • Routing complexity
I have also noticed that Live 8 has better optimized GUI in situations like this:

Create 16 audio tracks, select them all and move one of the faders (so that all the tracks move their faders in sync). In Live 8 everything is fluid. In Live 10 you start to notice the GUI lag. No need to arm or record in order to reproduce this. Something is very wrong with Ableton's programming.

Meanwhile in Reaper I create 200 tracks (why not) and everything is fluid...

MarkHaven
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:40 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by MarkHaven » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:41 pm

Any news on this?

It's really frustrating not being able to use a 4k monitor to its capacity with Ableton Live.

GUI is lagging horribly. Can anyone from Ableton please reply and fix this?

Could it be a Graphic Card problem?

MarkHaven
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:40 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by MarkHaven » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:43 pm

TRBTBEI wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 3:25 pm
kinkajou wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:14 am
very dumb question, but these issues i know from my very first steps with music making on PC years ago... ;)

What soundcard do you use?
Is ASIO configured correctly in the Live preferences?
Wow, kinkajou, I will have to at least partly apologize for my initial reaction towards your post!

ASIO buffer size do have a significant impact on the GUI lag but only in Ableton Live 8.4.2 64bit (dunno why). The smaller it is the quicker the GUI refresh it seems. Buffer size of 32 basically solves the GUI lag issue in Live 8 in my audio tracks arming test. However this buffer size is unrealistically small for most purposes so this is not a true solution. I don't know any other DAW that would have this problem with GUI connected to buffer size while recording armed tracks into arrangement. If one records only to session clips arming the tracks has no impact whatsoever.

However in Live 10 the buffer size has no visible impact at all. The GUI is still choppy until I disable arming on all tracks (not only the audio tracks).

So a summary of what we know so far.

These are the factors from which all of them must be true in order to cause the problem with the severity I have demonstrated in the video:
  • Armed audio and/or midi tracks
  • Recording into the arrangement
On the other hand these are some of the usual suspects which have basically no impact on the issue in Live 10:
  • Buffer size
  • CPU utilization and disk utilization
  • A quantity of devices
  • Routing complexity
I have also noticed that Live 8 has better optimized GUI in situations like this:

Create 16 audio tracks, select them all and move one of the faders (so that all the tracks move their faders in sync). In Live 8 everything is fluid. In Live 10 you start to notice the GUI lag. No need to arm or record in order to reproduce this. Something is very wrong with Ableton's programming.

Meanwhile in Reaper I create 200 tracks (why not) and everything is fluid...
Hey man, sorry if you already posted it, but what graphic card are you using?

I'm using a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960

jbone1313
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:44 am

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by jbone1313 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:00 pm

I have had GUI problems and lags with Live and M4L over the years. All of it went away after I upgraded my graphics card.

IME, for some reason, Live simply does not play well with certain graphics cards.

The one I use now and works well is a Gigabyte GTX 1050.

[jur]
Site Admin
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Location: Ableton

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by [jur] » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:42 am

Did anyone got in touch with support@ableton.com?
This all looks like very specific graphics card/os/machine/screen weird interaction.
Ableton Forum Moderator

janjuno
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:28 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by janjuno » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:28 pm

When i run my daw on any computer or plattform i kill all processes not needed to work with my DAW. I just had a look on your task tray (Bottom right Corner) There is a lot of stuff going on. Kill all Applications that you aren't using. They will cost you performace in any way.

Pro Tipp: Disable Wifi or Network Connections also.

Are you using and onboard Graphic Card?

callahanryan
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:14 am

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by callahanryan » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:17 am

Having this issue on an iMac Pro with Radeon Pro Vega 56 8 GB graphics card. Terrible frame rates. The weird thing is when I use Sidecar with my iPad Air to screen mirror, the UI of Live is perfectly smooth (on my iPad screen). This has to be a graphics issue with specific computers/cards, including this one. I’ve reached out to Ableton support about it but still waiting to hear back.

WEINHARDT
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:55 pm

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by WEINHARDT » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:57 pm

Having the same issues here with a GTX1070 and sent a mail to support today

ellicottvilleny
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:23 am

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by ellicottvilleny » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:55 am

This reproduces for me here using the sample DEBUG project provided above as a dropbox link, and the steps above.

Dell Precision T7610 desktop
256 gb RAM. Dual XEON E5-2609
Windows 10, version 1909 build 18363.
NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX750 driver version 26.21.14.3200

majorjoy
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:36 am

Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

Post by majorjoy » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:38 am

    Hey! Anyone got any update fixes for this GUI lag issue? I noticed this when Live 10 first came out and jumped ship back to Live 9 (which not no issues at all - its amazing). Now back to 10 because I thought it must be fixed now, but OMG it's still lagging!! Oh well, will do this project then back to 9 again.....!

    jynx3d
    Posts: 22
    Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:46 am

    Re: Ableton! The GUI lags are still NOT SOLVED! How long are we supposed to wait for the fix?

    Post by jynx3d » Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:21 am

    Hello everyone! seems like I'm having the same issue here, but I guess I found a solution!

    So I don't think Graphics Card is the main problem, it is from the Audio Driver it self!

    After some workaround, I was confused, I mean I just want to record ext. audio from my soundcard... :( I was using M-Audio MobilePre MK2 without official driver installed and it was installed by windows automatically when I was plug it in.

    So what I'm experiencing is severe graphical lags and it has a mangled and distorted sounds anytime I switches from ableton to desktop use, even a loud noises whenever I plug in or out a mouse or flashdrive :lol: (I thought it was normal)

    The next day I planned to borrow my friend same interface and I was like woohoo let's try and well..... it is still the same sh#t :lol:

    Then I was curious about Asio4All I saw 🔧 wrench button and clicked it and suprisingly the lag is gone when I disable the "Input".

    But HEY I want to record my sound from my interface! so yuh I feel sucks and start to use Audacity to record (it records flawlessly in the audacity *big mood*) I was thinking ableton has problem with this. :lol:

    So my friend came over my small studio and I let him checking my stuffs then voila I forgot to install the official driver! and I could record 4 tracks at the same time without lags! yay :D

    All my prob is just like what the thread described and fixed by just installing the official driver :!:

    My graphics card? I was using GTX 1650 ti there's no way it causing this tho :mrgreen:
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