[10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

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Arnsa
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[10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by Arnsa » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:59 am

Hello,

so I've just recently started using Ableton and it worked fine in the beginning. But then it stopped loading up as it would crash on startup every single time. I found out that it's crashing because of a plugin called Guitar Rig 5 by Native Instruments. If I remove this plugin from my VSTs folder, then Ableton works as expected. I don't think it's a problem with the plugin itself, because Logic Pro X works just fine with this plugin.

But anyways, I tried reinstalling the plugin - it didn't help. My OS: macOS Catalina 10.15.4.

[jur]
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Re: [10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by [jur] » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:13 pm

I suppose your Guitar Rig version is up-to-date.
Which plugin format did you try? VST2? 3? AU?
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Arnsa
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:56 am

Re: [10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by Arnsa » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:33 pm

Native Access installed only VST2. Yeah, it should be up to date, at least that's what Native Access says.

craigc
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Re: [10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by craigc » Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:48 pm

I'm not sure this will help, however, I also have GTR5 and had a similar issue. I determined it was the audio driver on my focusrite scarlett 2i2 Gen 2. It becomes corrupt. Apparently it's a known issue with that model hardware. I have to reinstall the driver periodically which really stinks. I know you said other things are still working, but I noticed issues with other video/audio as well and ultimately my whole system locks up.

Arnsa
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Re: [10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by Arnsa » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:03 pm

Heh, I have Focusrite Scarlett Solo, but even if I unplug it, it still crashes :( I guess if soundcard is unplugged, it shouldn't be related to it's drivers?

TLW
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Re: [10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by TLW » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:51 pm

The driver might still be loaded into memory, or get loaded as the operating system works out what the audio interface is. If the Focusrite was the last one used by Live (or Guitar Rig) it may be that the Focusrite driver is being loaded and the crash happens before the software has realised that the Focusrite interface isn’t there.

Unless it’s been added very recently and I missed it, Logic can not use VST plugins, only AU. Which means if the plugin runs in Logic the AU version of it must be installed. Tell Live to use AU plugins (it’s a setting in prefrences) then try the AU version of the plugin in Live and see if that works. Sometimes a VST works and AU doesn’t or vice-versa so it’s worth trying both versions.
Live 10 Suite, 2020 27" iMac, 3.6 GHz i9, MacOS Catalina, RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

Arnsa
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Re: [10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by Arnsa » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:07 pm

Yup, just tried turning it on - Guitar Rig 5 is there in the Audio Units folder and it works perfectly fine. I am not sure if Logic supports VSTs, I am still really new to all this kind of stuff. Sorry for asking, but what's the difference between using Audio units vs VST?

Also... I tried changing my input and output settings to use a builtin microphone and builtin speakers in Ableton unplugged my sound card then turned Ableton off and tried turning it on again. It crashed the first time, but it worked the second time.

After that, I tried plugging in the sound card, choosing it as my input and output in Ableton's settings and tried fully restarting Ableton a couple of times and seems to be working perfectly, so idk... 🤷‍♂️

TLW
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Re: [10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by TLW » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:20 am

Audio Units (AUs) are an Apple plugin format originally created for use with Logic Pro, Mainstage and Garageband. AUs are Mac only.

VST is a Steinberg plugin format originally created for use with Cubase. VSTs may be for Windows or Mac.

There are other plugin formats as well, such as the one Pro Tools uses.

In theory an AU and a VST should do the same thing in the same way Photoshop does (pretty much, some colour space stuff aside) the same thing on a Mac or PC. Basically, the same algorithms but coded in different programming languages. DAWs and computers being what they are things aren’t always that simple though. On Macs Apple’s Core Audio and Core MIDI make things possible that can’t be done on a PC, or at least can’t be done as well or as easily, such as combining multiple audio interfaces so they look like one interface to software while being able to keep low latency performance if both interface drivers allow it. Or MIDI over networks. A side effect of the Core Audio/MIDI system is that apparently it can be easier to do some things in AU format (being native to the Mac OS) than in VST format.

And not all DAWs handle things the same, just to add some more stuff to worry about. For example, in a Mac version of a DAW, VSTs may not be able to pass MIDI to the DAW while AUs can. Or vice versa. So if you have a plugin that can output MIDI you might find you can only get the VST (or AU) to work properly. A lot can depend on how tightly or thoroughly the plugin and DAW coders have stuck to the VST or AU specifications. Or whether they decided to implement a feature in one plugin format but not the other because it works better (or is easier to code) that way. Live was coded originally for VSTs rather than AUs if memory serves, and VSTs are a cross-platform format while AUs aren’t which has coding time and code complexity implications.

The motto therefore is install VST and AU versions (if both are available) and if one doesn’t work try the other. There’s a tendency nowadays to call plugins “VSTs” but not all are VSTs any more than all vacuum cleaners are made by Hoover or all fridges made by Frigidaire. So when tracking down problems it helps to specify exactly which format the plugin is.
Live 10 Suite, 2020 27" iMac, 3.6 GHz i9, MacOS Catalina, RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

Arnsa
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:56 am

Re: [10.1.9] Guitar Rig crashes Ableton

Post by Arnsa » Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:35 am

Thank you for such a comprehensive answer! So I suppose I'll delete the VST version of Guitar Rig 5 if Ableton keeps crashing because of it in the future and I'll use AU version instead.

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