VCA Fader in live?

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fastfx
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VCA Fader in live?

Post by fastfx » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:53 pm

Does anyone know if live has this? Pro tools and logic do so I figured live would but can’t see it?

Would be great if so. Helps with mixing a lot.

TLW
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by TLW » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:44 pm

The most common use of Logic’s VCA seems to be controlling the volume of a number of tracks but keeping their relative volume to each other the same. Live’s track grouping feature does that (and more besides).
Live 10 Suite, 2020 27" iMac, 3.6 GHz i9, MacOS Catalina, RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

Tarekith
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by Tarekith » Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:46 am

You don't even need to group the tracks, just selecting a few and changing one track level meter will scale the other's in the same relative manner. Very handy.
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fastfx
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by fastfx » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:24 pm

Thank you

TLW
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by TLW » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:51 pm

Tarekith wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:46 am
You don't even need to group the tracks,
True. If I want to make a one-off adjustment to a bunch of tracks that’s how I tend to do it.

The main reason I use groups is so I don’t have to remember which tracks I want as part of a submix and which I don’t. If they get scattered around I tend to forget and change something without including every track that should be included or including tracks that should be excluded. Then bad unwanted things happen. And if I don’t work on a project for a few weeks the chance of me recalling exactly which tracks should be adjusted together is pretty small.

Being able to process the entire submix using the group’s sends or inserting plugins on the group comes in handy as well.
Live 10 Suite, 2020 27" iMac, 3.6 GHz i9, MacOS Catalina, RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

theslyprofessor
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by theslyprofessor » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:57 am

You don't even need to group the tracks, just selecting a few and changing one track level meter will scale the other's in the same relative manner. Very handy.
This isn't the strength of the VCA Fader. Other DAWs can also do this AND they have VCA Faders, and for good reason. The strength of the VCA Fader lies in when you want to adjust faders in which volume automation is already written. Using a VCA fader in this case preserves all of the automation on the original tracks. If you adjust several volume faders in which volume automation already existed without a VCA fader, Live leaves the "read" automation mode and goes into "live" automation mode, which means that all of the written automation is essentially ignored.
The most common use of Logic’s VCA seems to be controlling the volume of a number of tracks but keeping their relative volume to each other the same. Live’s track grouping feature does that (and more besides).
A group does not completely solve the problem. People who mix on consoles like to have their faders be in a specific position, because faders have more resolution near the top. Putting the tracks in a group preserves the relative volumes, but it does not change the position of the faders.

Live is very behind in automation in general, because it does not have a dedicated means of switching from touch/latch/read/write. VCA faders would be a very welcome addition.

Dolfinesque
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by Dolfinesque » Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:50 pm

One benefit of having VCA faders is FX. If i have 3 channels in a group all 3 channels assigned to a group/buss, and these 3 channels all have sends to FX like reverb and delay, when you lower the volume of the group fader the 3 channel faders do not lower so they are still sending post fader audio to the FX/reverb (The channels lower in sound but the reverb is still playing).

The VCA takes control of all 3 faders and moves them relative to its fader positioning, kind of like a VU meter for the faders assigned to its 0 db value.

VCA fader is basically a macro fader, a group/buss lowers the volume of channels going into it because all sound sources are merged into 1 signal, but a VCA individually takes control of the parameters' of the channels faders relative to its 0 db fader positioning.

If you where to fade out the VCA the 3 channel faders also fade out and no signals are going to the FX/reverb sends.

By having no VCA fader option it makes wanting to lower many faders at the same time frustrating, if you have a drum kit set-up where you wanted to lower 10 individual drum kit pieces on 10 channels each with unique send FX routings you would now have to use 10 automation moves instead of 1 VCA automation move.

seb30303
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by seb30303 » Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:58 am

This isn't the strength of the VCA Fader. Other DAWs can also do this AND they have VCA Faders, and for good reason. The strength of the VCA Fader lies in when you want to adjust faders in which volume automation is already written. Using a VCA fader in this case preserves all of the automation on the original tracks. If you adjust several volume faders in which volume automation already existed without a VCA fader, Live leaves the "read" automation mode and goes into "live" automation mode, which means that all of the written automation is essentially ignored.
Personally I avoid automating track volumes directly. Just throw a Utility in the effects chain and automate this.

orionka
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by orionka » Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:03 am

you can always route specific tracks to a single audio track with monitor in, then control the volume of the latter.

Dolfinesque
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by Dolfinesque » Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:33 pm

You are then using that 1 channel as a VCA without VCA benefits, if you group 5 tracks into 1 track and lower that 1 group track fader, the 5 tracks still produce audio, you just don't hear it, if they are sending audio to FX or sidechains they are still active, this is no good. This is like shutting the door on a bathroom while the sink is overflowing all over the floor, this is not a solution to stop flooding.

The VCA fader (which Ableton does not have !) would control the 5 faders, VCA means voltage, it lowers or strengthens the power of amplitude going to each of those 5 faders, so lowering the 1 VCA would send less amplitude power to the 5 tracks faders and in turn any FX/sidechains these 5 feed would also receive less power.

In Ableton you have to use a workaround by finding 3rd party plugins that have grouping functions, where the level of 1 plugin makes every other plugin of its kind a slave to it and its values.

orionka
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Re: VCA Fader in live?

Post by orionka » Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:33 pm

got it.
The simplest alternative would be like already mentioned:
don't automate volume faders and use utility devices gain knob in each track for automation,
then shift click those tacks that you want to to adjust and use the volume fader.
VCA is more convenient in this case.

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