How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

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zach.mx
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:10 pm

How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by zach.mx » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:20 pm

Hi all, I've run into a problem while working on some orchestral tracks and I'm not sure how to do what I'm trying to do.

Basically, I would like to record my cc's 1, 7, and 11 into the arrangement view and not the clip view. I'm using a Spitfire BBC Orchestra plugin and each one of those CC's controls the volume, expression and vibrato. I really don't want to map my controller every time I switch instruments/tracks so I can control the plugin. I would like it to send that data into the arrangement view/timeline, but the data is sent to the clip. This is a problem because if it doesn't record into the arrangement view, then I have to jump into each clip, then open the envelopes panel so that I can edit the CC automation data. I could definitely consolidate all the clips when I'm done and then edit them that way, but would much prefer to just stay out of the clip/envelope panel entirely and handle the CC automation in the same way I handle the mixing. It would be even better if I could take those CC's and put them on their own automation lanes so I could see them simultaneously.

Here's a photo below.
Image
I would like the automation in the clip seen above to be mapped out in the arrangement view and not the clip data.

Any thoughts on how I could do this would be appreciated. Thanks!

siliconarc
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Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by siliconarc » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:41 pm

If you have Max For Live, Robert Henke’s ControlChange8 device will do this.

https://roberthenke.com/technology/m4l.html

zach.mx
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:10 pm

Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by zach.mx » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:34 pm

garyboozy wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:41 pm
If you have Max For Live, Robert Henke’s ControlChange8 device will do this.

https://roberthenke.com/technology/m4l.html
Excellent. Just tried out the device and it works perfectly. Thank you for sharing.

zach.mx
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:10 pm

Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by zach.mx » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:41 pm

I have one more question now after trying it for a few minutes.

Say I want to use the same 3 sliders and assign them to the same CC on every track, is there a way to have my midi controller effect only the track I have selected? I don't want to have to assign them for the tracks every time I switch.

Edit: I've spent the last hour or two investigating my midi programming parameters and it seems that I need to program my midi controller to interface with that max for live device. I'm editing the CC values for my controller and it seems to be working now. Thanks again for the M4L reccomendation

Edit #2: For this to work, I combined the above recommended M4L device and then made a custom Control Surface script to instant map my midi controller to the proper CC channels. If anyone is looking to replicate what I did, you can check out this page on abletons website. Also for a visual reference when setting up the instant mapping script, check this video out.

fusquito
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:13 am

Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by fusquito » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:35 pm

Dear Ableton,

can we please, for the love of God, figure out the way to send the CC automation directly into their own automation lanes in Arrangement view.... 55 channels of orchestration with 4 to 10 CCs of recorded automated data that need to be edited via a list in Clip view and have to click one by one... seriously....

or use 3 hours trying to configure a Max device...

This Max device was put out Feb 2013... I think 7 and 1/2 years is plenty of time to figure this out.

..or please tell me there is a way to do this already with some magical click of a button and that I suck...

thanks.

RumbleMonk
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by RumbleMonk » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:40 pm

fusquito wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:35 pm
This Max device was put out Feb 2013... I think 7 and 1/2 years is plenty of time to figure this out.

..or please tell me there is a way to do this already with some magical click of a button and that I suck...

thanks.
If you suck then I suck too. I've given up on trying to search through internet to find a simple solution. There surely must be something we're missing?

Lotus Lake
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:52 pm

Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by Lotus Lake » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:58 pm

I very much second the push to be able to view and edit CC data in the arrangement view! This feature alone is one of the one of the big reasons Ableton is not my main daw for my work. I have a deep love for Ableton, as it's been a core part of my studio work and and the cornerstone of my live performance for almost 13 years. But in the last few years as film/tv scoring has become my main source of work, my use of orchestral libraries has become an essential part of my workflow. Unfortunately I've moved to using Logic as my main daw, simply because editing/programming CC automation for libraries, as others described above, is much too cumbersome for the fast turnaround times and speed of workflow needed in this field. I still use Ableton in conjunction with Logic, rewiring it in so I can process my live, recorded audio in Ableton. However, if the midi automation/editing features were more robust, or at the very least simply had this feature of being able to view/edit CC automation in the arrangement view, I might be able to move back to using Ableton all by itself, which would make me VERY happy! :mrgreen:

Slow Hand
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:54 am

Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by Slow Hand » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:50 pm

Lotus Lake wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:58 pm
I very much second the push to be able to view and edit CC data in the arrangement view! This feature alone is one of the one of the big reasons Ableton is not my main daw for my work. I have a deep love for Ableton, as it's been a core part of my studio work and and the cornerstone of my live performance for almost 13 years. But in the last few years as film/tv scoring has become my main source of work, my use of orchestral libraries has become an essential part of my workflow. Unfortunately I've moved to using Logic as my main daw, simply because editing/programming CC automation for libraries, as others described above, is much too cumbersome for the fast turnaround times and speed of workflow needed in this field. I still use Ableton in conjunction with Logic, rewiring it in so I can process my live, recorded audio in Ableton. However, if the midi automation/editing features were more robust, or at the very least simply had this feature of being able to view/edit CC automation in the arrangement view, I might be able to move back to using Ableton all by itself, which would make me VERY happy! :mrgreen:
Thirded. I would very much like to have this workflow option in Live. In fact, I came here because I have the exact same issue as the first poster: Automating my Spitfire BBC Symphony Library becomes super tedious because the automation is recorded to clip view and not to the automation lanes, where it is much easier to present and edit the automation channels.

Please, please, please introduce this option.

grrrz
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:54 pm

Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by grrrz » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:51 pm

I understand your pain; I've always found this annoying.
Maybe there's an obvious reason why; but can't you directly automate the parameters of your plugin instead of the CC? are they on another track? (It'd require you to map your controller directly to the parameters in remote I think). This way it will appear in the arrangement view.
The other way I see is effectively creating a "dummy" m4l object with faders; assign your controller to those fader and those faders would send the CCs.

seantyas
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:08 pm

Re: How do I record CC automation into arrangement and not the clip?

Post by seantyas » Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:26 am

This is STILL not implemented and the m4l devices are still not ideal.

Clip view midi automation is painfully horrible.

I really dont understand how we are at version 11 and it's still. not native to the arrange pane.

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