MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jonljacobi
Posts: 583
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by jonljacobi » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:04 am

Tuur wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:54 pm
dudewalkingon wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:43 pm
... Logic is super fast.
I saw a benchmark on YouTube. It's ridiculous. 8O

The guy also said the difference between Air and Pro is almost negligible.
The Air will throttle much sooner than the Pro, and the Mini won’t throttle at all, just crank the fan. But that all depends on the load.

Tuur
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:56 am

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by Tuur » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:04 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:04 am
The Air will throttle much sooner than the Pro, and the Mini won’t throttle at all, just crank the fan. But that all depends on the load.
Not according to the different (audio and video) stress tests on the M1. On Intel, sure.

jonljacobi
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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by jonljacobi » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:33 pm

Tuur wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:04 am
jonljacobi wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:04 am
The Air will throttle much sooner than the Pro, and the Mini won’t throttle at all, just crank the fan. But that all depends on the load.
Not according to the different (audio and video) stress tests on the M1. On Intel, sure.
Far, far better than Intel, but they still behave according to thermal law. Look around, you’ll find reports that say the same thing.

However, most real life stuff won’t bang hard enough. Also, it depends on the task and whether it falls outside of the M1’s extensive sets of optimizations. I think with an M1 app, working within those, all three machines kick butt.

ToukoS
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:40 pm

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by ToukoS » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:49 pm

I'm on MacBook Pro 2019, 16gb, 2,6 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i7 and (stupidly) running Big Sur.

Everything else seems to be working just fine but Push 1 (and other midi controllers) crashes Ableton. Push 1 doesn't respond and switching it on/off causes a) the software to crash b) Ableton won't restart after crashing c) when trying to turn off the computer, it goes to "your computer restarted because of a problem" mode. Midi keyboard causes crashes too after adjusting midi settings.

Is there any way to fix this before updates?
• How soon could one expect help in the form of updates, or should I just update back to Catalina?

jonljacobi
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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by jonljacobi » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:09 pm

If you need a stable computer, regress back.

TLW
Posts: 810
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Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by TLW » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:10 pm

ToukoS wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:49 pm
How soon could one expect help in the form of updates
The answer to that is “how long is an elastic band?”

Some software and hardware companies catch up with the annual Apple big updates quite quickly, others take longer. Much depends on exactly what the problems, if any, actually are. Simple stuff gets fixed quickly, complicated stuff takes longer.

The basic principle of not rushing to install the latest OS on a production computer is as valid now as it was 30 years ago.
Live 10 Suite, 2020 27" iMac, 3.6 GHz i9, MacOS Catalina, RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

Tuur
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:56 am

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by Tuur » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:38 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:33 pm
Far, far better than Intel, but they still behave according to thermal law. Look around, you’ll find reports that say the same thing.
Of course. I didn't say it did not throttle, I was responding to your much sooner statement.

Tuur
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:56 am

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by Tuur » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:39 am

ToukoS wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:49 pm
Is there any way to fix this before updates?
• How soon could one expect help in the form of updates, or should I just update back to Catalina?
Did you contact support?

[jur]
Site Admin
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Location: Ableton

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by [jur] » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:41 am

Ableton Forum Moderator

Teddy Wilson
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:38 pm

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by Teddy Wilson » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:39 pm

I created a script to poll the Mac OSX compatibility article and post changes to a slack channel (lol, mostly for personal convenience). Feel free to check it out on Github which has a link to the Slack channel for anyone to join. Cheers! 8)

https://github.com/teddywilson/tell-me- ... upports-m1

ToukoS
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:40 pm

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by ToukoS » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:30 pm

Tuur wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:39 am
ToukoS wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:49 pm
Is there any way to fix this before updates?
• How soon could one expect help in the form of updates, or should I just update back to Catalina?
Did you contact support?
Thanks for asking, a little regrettably they didn't have anything to add to the messages here – not even a timeline for updates.

RiSO72
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:00 pm

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by RiSO72 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:03 pm

Tarekith wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:22 am
I've been using Live 11 on Big Sur the last couple of days and so far not a single issue. No issues at all with the upgrade actually, at least on my 16" MBP. Not saying that's a recomendation, but if there are any issues I'm guessing they are minor or mainly due to 3rd party plug ins most likely.

Whew!
So, will Live 11 be Apple M1 native upon release in early 2021 or will that come later? I’m guessing support for macOS 11 might come first, but I just wondered if anyone could clarify this?

Thanks in advance!

Tronam
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:02 pm

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by Tronam » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:07 pm

The Native Access beta has been released, so you should now be able to get past the platform check error which prevented installing any of the Native-Instruments plugins on M1 Macs. Kontakt actually works better than I was expecting under Rosetta 2. Live’s own performance in general still isn’t amazing, but it’s been surprisingly stable for me. https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... 1608276211

grrrz
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:54 pm

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by grrrz » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:20 pm

So from what I read the ableton live performance is not impressive at all within rosetta 2; like on par with a few years old 13" intel pro, depending on the plug-in you use.

I'm curious to know if you can use and edit max for live patch with rosetta.
People report that max 8 is working pretty fine; and people over at Cycling 74 say they plan to have a fully rosetta compatible version very soon; and hope to have a native version by mid-2021.
here is their official annoucement:
https://cycling74.com/forums/announceme ... 134bb038cf

That should give us a clue about the time it will take to have ableton live going native.

I'll need a new laptop pretty soon but it's hard to know how it will perform once live goes native; assuming the whole vst library goes native as well.
Also curious to know if they're planning to use a wrapper for intel vst so live can run native; like logic does; and if it's a built-in function in OSX.
I don't need a beast and I do a lot with just analog but those live 10 new effects and probably live 11 are pretty cpu intensive. For me it'd be either buying an used 15" inch from a few years back or the air M1 (apparently it's pretty useless to get the pro; it seems like the bottleneck for audio work in live is pretty often single-core performance; which means it shouldn't throttle much doing music production. we'll need to confirm this with tests)

grrrz
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:54 pm

Re: MacOS Big Sur and M1 (Apple Processor) support

Post by grrrz » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:53 am

danielgrieff wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:44 pm
Hi guys! Just wanted to leave these observations here in case anyone was curious. Also, it'd be interesting to me to read your observations to see if you're experiencing anything like this.

* Across the board, CPU usage is about 15% higher on the M1 than the Intel i9. This is using live 10 and 11. A project which ran at 30% on the i9 now runs at 40-45% on the M1 and suffers constant audio artefacts/dropouts.
* The CPU readings are very erratic on the M1. There's a fluctuation of around 5% that constantly flitters around, compared to the i9 which barely moves.
* On live 11, the per-track performance monitoring doesn't add up to the overall CPU load. 2 tracks with 1 bar of performance impact add up to a 30% CPU load.
The CPU load is not a cpu meter; it tells you basically for each sample played the percentage of the time it takes for live to process. Since each audio chain can only use one core (a chain includes the master and return tracks); you can have one track with cpu-intensive plug-ins that overload your live cpu gauge to 100%; and still have a cpu idling; or you can have 8 tracks with moderately intensive plugins and removing 4 or 6 will not change the cpu gauge.

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