Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
properLofi
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by properLofi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:07 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:01 pm
properLofi wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:46 pm
iCloud works just fine being active in 10, if it’s an issue in 11 it’s a bug.
What do you mean here with iCloud?? Are you storing and/or reading your user library or sets from here?
Absolutely not. It’s just someone earlier mentioned it had to be turned off on their system. Though even if I was, iCloud is also stored locally so it would make no difference

Calagan
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by Calagan » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:27 pm

I think properLofi is just answering a question I asked him about iCloud.
I used to have issues with iCloud, at the time of Live 9. I don't use it since then, so I don't know how it behave with 10.

Regarding the demo test, yes I duplicated tracks and found the same limit in Live 11 and Live 10.

It's sure there is a bug, but it seems it's not with the hardware (because we have almost the same).
It must be with some app running in your machine, or some configuration that Live doesn't like.
Or maybe Catalina...

I hope they'll find the issue soon.

omniphonix
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by omniphonix » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:24 pm

After a bit more experimentation, I realized I have the custom Live device for my Nektar Aura still loaded in the master channel as my default Live project. I removed that and notice a significant drop in CPU utilization (still not a silver bullet though). It still works fine in Live 10. I heard something about some change to the python version they use in 11 and I wonder if this is the culprit. See if there are some legacy Live devices (not VST plugins, an actual Live device) loaded in your project that might be causing the CPU hit. Kinda sucks for me though, I guess I have to wait for an update from Nektar for the Aura integration to work right.

Tarekith
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by Tarekith » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:25 pm

Thanks for chiming back in to let us know what the culprit was at least.
Tarekith
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file
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by file » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:39 pm

Indeed, i am experience the same!

Since i own Maschine from NI, i've just create a demo with 4 tracks in Maschine v2 using Diva, The Legend, Dune 3 and Pigments synths, since these VST are usually heavy on CPU. I get 20% total.

With Live 11 with an empty project, as soon as I drop Pigments the CPU jumps to 40% without even playing any chord. I am running i7-7700, 32Gb Ram using Audient ID4 with 128 buffer size.

Quiet Erp
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by Quiet Erp » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:49 pm

perrycomo wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:12 pm
Same here, dismayed at how little 11 can handle before glitching out everywhere
Judging by the length of this thread I see I’m not alone. I bought a new laptop a month ago and the same project running in 10 was under 10-15 % cpu compared to the meltdown of 11 bumping 90-100%. And crashing every few hours for no apparent reason. 🤷‍♂️

Quiet Erp
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by Quiet Erp » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:59 pm

omniphonix wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:24 pm
After a bit more experimentation, I realized I have the custom Live device for my Nektar Aura still loaded in the master channel as my default Live project. I removed that and notice a significant drop in CPU utilization (still not a silver bullet though). It still works fine in Live 10. I heard something about some change to the python version they use in 11 and I wonder if this is the culprit. See if there are some legacy Live devices (not VST plugins, an actual Live device) loaded in your project that might be causing the CPU hit. Kinda sucks for me though, I guess I have to wait for an update from Nektar for the Aura integration to work right.
I, too have shed loads of M4L devices in my default template. I’ll clear them all out and see if improves matters. And I understand that it’s just out and might be buggy, but if you spend several 100 quid on something you expect it to work.

SNO King
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Re: Live 11 offers.../Plug-in issues workaround...

Post by SNO King » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:44 am

I concur. I thought it was my MacbookPro, QuadCorei7, 16GB, 2TB SSD, barely getting 7 or 8 tracks and the CPU goes crazy.... Does the same with the M1 MacMini with 16GB and 2TB onboard, but I can get a lot more tracks, but it's killing the CPU at times. It's really flaky as far as CPU utilization or could this be... more security overhead and encryption on the Mac OS environment itself. That tends to bog things down as well sometimes.... I have sent 5+ crash reports in the past few weeks, so hopefully.... an update soon possibly??.

Roland needs to do the same the Ableton/MX-1 live mixing is a bit iffy now.

For anyone interested or with similar (no audio) audio issues with some plugins:

One thing that did clear up the plugin issues My rig was having with audio on the Digital Channels on the MX-1, I chose to reduce my security in the harddrive (yes...) thus allowing all Apple Security Certificates from the past. It worked. I just had to approve the plugins in the usually Security Area in Settings (like always before)not all of them even needed it.

The new way to get into the M1 to get to that menu is so much better than the keyboard method... you just hold the power button and the screen changes. Asks questions. nice system but be warned... your reducing your security to do this. Or you can wait for updates from the vendors.

Peace,
Kelly

SNO King
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by SNO King » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:52 am

This audio plug-in workaround I mention, is also a workaround for other issues involving older forms of security approval such as using a port or anything really. (i.e. Aurdent, SSL plugins, and so forth where software physically can interact with specialized hardware such as mixers)You can always undo this fix, so it's really a no-brainer to just "try it" and see if it works till the both hardware/OS and Versions stabilize. :D

It's just a setting in the security settings area of the Recovery menu (Command-R) or Power Button Hold (M1 Macs) then repeat if you it didnt solve and you want to put it back. Either way... good luck! And stay groovin!

Peace,
Kelly

[jur]
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by [jur] » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:13 am

I'm repeating myself for those who have M4L devices in their template set, because this could be the reason for terrible performances:
[jur] wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:09 pm
open the builtin Max, not from inside Live but by going into Live's "package content" in the FInder/Explorer > navigating to the Max app
Once Max is open can you check its Debug menu and see if Event/SIgnal/Matrix Probe is active or not please? If anything is active, turn it off, quit Max, relaunch Live and re-do your test.
To everyone, make sure to report to support@ableton.com
I hope you'll sort this out asap.
Ableton Forum Moderator

properLofi
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by properLofi » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:07 pm

[jur] wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:09 pm
open the builtin Max, not from inside Live but by going into Live's "package content" in the FInder/Explorer > navigating to the Max app
Once Max is open can you check its Debug menu and see if Event/SIgnal/Matrix Probe is active or not please? If anything is active, turn it off, quit Max, relaunch Live and re-do your test.
I realised I hadn’t addressed this directly. None of the probes were active within Max (once I’d managed to find it) so unfortunately this hasn’t made any difference to my set up.

ragverp
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by ragverp » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:38 pm

I cant even play the live set that is accomiening the lessons, glitches everywere...

Crazy because i am on a rather maxed out computer...

Amd Ryzen 3900 with 64 gigabyte mem and al m2 harddisk ...rather disappointed.

even 1 instance of serum is causing the cpu meter to jump to 60 %


i hope this is a bug ...

branheim
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by branheim » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:38 am

Windows 10 Pro Here, Intel 9900K 64gb Ram, SSD, 4k 43" monitor, audient id14, 64 samples

On Live 10, one 24 bit 44.1 stereo track with one vst3 ozone 8 instance, 14-16% cpu.
On Live 11, identical project and settings, dropouts and peaking 75-100+%.

I'm sure they'll get it ironed out, but I'll stick with 10 for now I think.

I'm super excited about comping and the probability rate features.

AbletonMASCHINE
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Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by AbletonMASCHINE » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:57 pm

properLofi wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:07 pm
[jur] wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:09 pm
open the builtin Max, not from inside Live but by going into Live's "package content" in the FInder/Explorer > navigating to the Max app
Once Max is open can you check its Debug menu and see if Event/SIgnal/Matrix Probe is active or not please? If anything is active, turn it off, quit Max, relaunch Live and re-do your test.
I realised I hadn’t addressed this directly. None of the probes were active within Max (once I’d managed to find it) so unfortunately this hasn’t made any difference to my set up.
Similar experience with an I9-9940X, 64 GB Ram and a RTX 2080 Ti running Win10 home here:
L11 runs idle (no playback, nothing opened, no connected control surface etc.) with 7-9% whereas L10 showed 3-4%.

properLofi
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:35 pm

Re: Live 11 offers less than 50% of Live 10

Post by properLofi » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:18 pm

I think it’s important to note the difference between what the CPU says and what you can actually achieve.
One of the issues is potentially a difference in reporting rather than performance.

The real test is how many tracks of varying types you can run on 10 and 11 before audio drop out occurs. This way it’s not reliant upon a vague notion of CPU % but what the system is actually doing.

The Live 10 Performance Test from this forum is a good benchmark with replicable results across systems and configurations.

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