Should I Dither?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
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Ironlion
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Should I Dither?

Post by Ironlion » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:23 pm

I produce music videos. I record my music in Ableton and then import the audio file into Davinci Resolve where the video is added.

I will do an export of the song from Ableton, then open that file in Ableton, do my mastering, and then export again. I then import that into Resolve where it gets rendered one more time (with the video).

My current understanding is that I should not dither on the first export. Should I dither when exporting the master? Or should I not dither at all in Ableton and just let Resolve handle it when the audio and video are rendered together?

Thanks for any input!
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Tarekith
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Re: Should I Dither?

Post by Tarekith » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:53 pm

You should dither when exporting the master, that should be all you need. If you're unsure of which dither to use, triangular is your best bet (it's what I use 95% of the time even though I have access to other dithering algorithms).
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oratowsky
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Re: Should I Dither?

Post by oratowsky » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:09 pm

Tarekith wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:53 pm
You should dither when exporting the master, that should be all you need. If you're unsure of which dither to use, triangular is your best bet (it's what I use 95% of the time even though I have access to other dithering algorithms).
Tarekith -- What compels you to reach for a different dithering tool?

I use AirWindows NotJustAnotherDither but of course it's such a subtle process. would love to hear cases where you hear it or what makes you choose a different dithering algo?

Ironlion -- you can also export at 32bit the first time you export if you like and then no dithering is necessary. But it's very rare it would ever be audible or dramatic. Follow Tarekith's advice

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Re: Should I Dither?

Post by Tarekith » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:12 am

Usually I would reach for something else if I was working on VERY dynamic and quiet music, say a string quartet or something more classical. In those cases where people might actually be hearing extended decay tails on higher end systems, I might choose to go with POW-r2 or POW-r3 dithering. Maybe the Goodhertz dither option as well now that I think about.

It's an extremely subtle difference, all in all dithering is one of the least impactful things you can do when it comes to producing. I personally think it's silly musicians should even have to think about it in the mastering stage as it has almost no impact on the sound of 99.99% of music.
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Angstrom
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Re: Should I Dither?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:57 am

You should dither whenever reducing the bit depth / word length.
Simply truncating (eg from 32 bit to 24 bit, or to 16 bit ) means throwing away data, and dithering blurs the bottom edge of that truncation. Even though it's rare that we hear those really quiet parts of the dynamic range it is still possible. Nobody likes a grainy reverb tail.

If you are rendering at the same word length ("bit depth") then dithering is a bad idea, because It's blurring the bottom of the dynamic range for no reason.

No need to render a 32 bit song with added dither, for example.

Ironlion
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Re: Should I Dither?

Post by Ironlion » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:07 am

Thanks for the answers guys! :D
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jlgrimes
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Re: Should I Dither?

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:05 pm

Ironlion wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:23 pm
I produce music videos. I record my music in Ableton and then import the audio file into Davinci Resolve where the video is added.

I will do an export of the song from Ableton, then open that file in Ableton, do my mastering, and then export again. I then import that into Resolve where it gets rendered one more time (with the video).

My current understanding is that I should not dither on the first export. Should I dither when exporting the master? Or should I not dither at all in Ableton and just let Resolve handle it when the audio and video are rendered together?

Thanks for any input!
I hear a few different answers on this but typically, you should only dither when going from 24 to 16 bit format (usually when going to CD). And dithering is usually just a one time thing (if being done at all).

Using lossless compressed formats such as FLAC or ALAC I typically see those formats in 24 bit, so I would assume no dither.

Using lossy compression, I heard to not dither as most encoders has some internal process to handle this (but I guess there is some variation here). I have not got a solid answer here.




To tell you the truth, I don't believe I have really ever heard the effects of dither (or not dithering). I never took the time to turn the volume up to hear the effects.

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