Problem: Using Sends / Return Tracks Adds Volume?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Post Reply
Ironlion
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Problem: Using Sends / Return Tracks Adds Volume?

Post by Ironlion » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:39 am

I notice that if I add a reverb plugin (for example) to a track, it adds reverb without affecting the volume of the track. However, if I add the reverb plugin to a return track instead, and then turn up the "Send" knob to bring in that reverb from the return track, it raises the volume of the whole track.

There's something I'm not understanding here. I thought the idea was to add effects to return tracks and then be able to easily use that effect on multiple tracks. But the added volume that's coming with the return tracks confuses me. What am I missing?

Thanks!
Last edited by Ironlion on Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Clip Slot Looper for Ableton: https://performancelooper.com/shop/

slow.robot
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Using Sends / Return Tracks Adds Volume?

Post by slow.robot » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:01 am

if the return track has any dry signal to it, you're effectively raising the volume of the unaffected part, since you're summing the track with more dry signal (itself). return effects should usually be 100% wet/affected.

Ironlion
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Re: Using Sends / Return Tracks Adds Volume?

Post by Ironlion » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:35 pm

Awesome. Thank you!
Clip Slot Looper for Ableton: https://performancelooper.com/shop/

Ironlion
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Re: Using Sends / Return Tracks Adds Volume?

Post by Ironlion » Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:11 am

No, I'm still missing something. If I add a return track and dial up the send to 100% (wet) from an audio track, it adds volume even when there is nothing (no effects) on the return track.
Clip Slot Looper for Ableton: https://performancelooper.com/shop/

chapelier fou
Posts: 6011
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Problem: Using Sends / Return Tracks Adds Volume?

Post by chapelier fou » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:56 am

It effectively doubles up the volume, as the same sound goes through the track and the return track at the same power.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
MacStudio M1Max 32Go OS 12.3.1

slow.robot
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Using Sends / Return Tracks Adds Volume?

Post by slow.robot » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:57 am

Ironlion wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:11 am
No, I'm still missing something. If I add a return track and dial up the send to 100% (wet) from an audio track, it adds volume even when there is nothing (no effects) on the return track.
what you're describing sounds like you're sending a track (say 'guitar') to a send (say, to return 'A'), and on the guitar track, you've got the send turned all the way up (it would say '0', indicating you're sending the full volume out at unity gain). and it sounds like on your return track, A, you don't have any effects added (presumably for testing).

is that correct? if so, that's what you should expect--in that case, you're basically using the return track as a parallel channel. the phase and waveform of the guitar track is in perfect alignment with the duplicate of itself that's coming in through the return, increasing the volume. this phase coherence is called constructive interference, and looks like shown here:
Image

assuming that's the case, you should add your effect to the return track, and find the wet/dry control (sometimes labeled differently, and sometimes may have separate controls for wet and dry signal levels). you'll want the wet at 100%, and the dry at 0%. then you can back off how much signal you're sending to the return from your audio track (you'll rarely want to have it cranked all the way up to 0). you may still have a small amount of added volume, since you're still adding new information into the mix, but the difference shouldn't be very noticeable.

if that's not doing it for you, it would help to see what you've got set up, in which case, sharing a screenshot of your settings would be super helpful.

Post Reply