Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Nate Holt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:29 pm

Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by Nate Holt » Sun May 02, 2021 12:03 am

Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues on 11! You know it's a problem even on system specs far beyond the recommendations. The spikes are ridiculous.

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by jestermgee » Sun May 02, 2021 1:13 am

Switch to PC and problem solved :)

Nate Holt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:29 pm

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by Nate Holt » Sun May 02, 2021 2:45 am

It's not a Mac/PC issue. Researching the issue there were as many if not more people having the same problems with PCs. Varying degrees of success working around it, but majority still dealing with it in some way. It's compounded by the fact that you can't actually convert back to 10 because of rack compatibility. It would be different if Ableton would just admit they're trying to sort it out - they clearly are seeing a surge in support requests based on the notification they give you when submitting a ticket. Instead, they're treating this like it's users that need to demonstrate they're doing everything correctly before they'll be inclined to do anything about it. Just say unequivocally they understand there is a problem - there CLEARLY is - and are trying to fix it. I had virtually no problems with 10 and an older Macbook Pro. I upgraded to a screaming fast Mini so I could run my Protools mixing sessions without the constant CPU usage errors (but Live 10 ran great, even with loads of CPU heavy plugs). Now Protools is working like a boss and Live 11 is a huge PITA. It's not a secret and it's not old/new, Mac/PC, M1/Intel/etc. It's. A. Problem.

slow.robot
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by slow.robot » Sun May 02, 2021 2:54 am

why would anyone assume they’re not working on it? given how widespread the complaints are, the idea that they’re sitting around doing nothing about it seems pretty far fetched. not sure where there’s “gaslighting” going on. 🤷🏻‍♂️

jestermgee
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Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by jestermgee » Sun May 02, 2021 3:31 am

Maybe I’m just lucky as I haven’t noticed any issue from 10 to 11. Every old project works the same pretty much and most complaints, like the op, completely lack sys info and testing details to compare, moaning without any substance achieves fu$& all.

Nate Holt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:29 pm

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by Nate Holt » Sun May 02, 2021 4:39 am

Google 'ableton 11 cpu spikes', 'ableton 11 high cpu usage', etc. I understand it works for some majority of users, but it is gaslighting to deny there's issues here that can't be dismissed as all of these people being idiots. The gaslighting I'm talking about is the "need sys details..." - at this point plenty of users reporting this know what they're talking about regarding setting up their systems, both PC and MAC. You don't need a computer science or audio engineering degree to know how to optimize, use external drives, configure hardware, and all else required - it's basic following instructions to get things right that is not helping resolve these problems. I am invested and really love this program am but frustrated with the "it must be your fault", "moaning without substance" BS. No backwards compatibility... opening 11 projects in 10 doesn't work. So yes I can just use keep using 10, but I hope the reason they aren't responding to support requests because they're so busy working on addressing it.

slow.robot
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by slow.robot » Sun May 02, 2021 11:02 am

Nate Holt wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:39 am
Google 'ableton 11 cpu spikes', 'ableton 11 high cpu usage', etc. I understand it works for some majority of users, but it is gaslighting to deny there's issues here that can't be dismissed as all of these people being idiots. The gaslighting I'm talking about is the "need sys details..." - at this point plenty of users reporting this know what they're talking about regarding setting up their systems, both PC and MAC. You don't need a computer science or audio engineering degree to know how to optimize, use external drives, configure hardware, and all else required - it's basic following instructions to get things right that is not helping resolve these problems. I am invested and really love this program am but frustrated with the "it must be your fault", "moaning without substance" BS. No backwards compatibility... opening 11 projects in 10 doesn't work. So yes I can just use keep using 10, but I hope the reason they aren't responding to support requests because they're so busy working on addressing it.
where is there anyone who represents Ableton that's blaming users, calling them idiots, or denying there's a problem?

I can say you're "moaning without substance" all I like—but I don't work for Ableton. just because random people (who aren't affiliated with the company) post stuff on a public forum, doesn't mean the company is gaslighting you.

I understand the frustration, but I also work in a tech environment, and I can promise you, getting users to provide the kind of details needed to properly identify issues is frustrating too. they *do* need those system details. they likely can't solve the problem without them. getting that kind of detail from users is like pulling your own teeth—difficult, and painful. if you want a solution more quickly, open a support ticket, and provide as much detail as you can think of, then go back and add some more. it's more useful to contribute to the solution, rather than waiting around to benefit on the coattails of "plenty of users" who are trying to help.

Nate Holt
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Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:29 pm

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by Nate Holt » Sun May 02, 2021 2:59 pm

Random forum posters can say “moaning without substance” all they like, yes. That’s an assumption that I haven’t provided details because I didn’t put them in my post which would be wrong. I get that a lot of people suck or are just clueless about tech support but alot of others know what’s needed and provide that detail. This not being confined to any specific system or software configuration is likely giving the company fits to sort out but they should just say so. Are they just ignoring it or not doing anything about it? Probably not. Is it too much to ask for a little transparency? For people who pay a not insignificant amount of money on the full versions of their product, at this point a public acknowledgment that they’re aware of these issues and are working on fixing them is warranted.

slow.robot
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by slow.robot » Sun May 02, 2021 3:49 pm

Nate Holt wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:59 pm
Random forum posters can say “moaning without substance” all they like, yes. That’s an assumption that I haven’t provided details because I didn’t put them in my post which would be wrong. I get that a lot of people suck or are just clueless about tech support but alot of others know what’s needed and provide that detail. This not being confined to any specific system or software configuration is likely giving the company fits to sort out but they should just say so. Are they just ignoring it or not doing anything about it? Probably not. Is it too much to ask for a little transparency? For people who pay a not insignificant amount of money on the full versions of their product, at this point a public acknowledgment that they’re aware of these issues and are working on fixing them is warranted.
I guess all I can say then, is that being less communicative than you'd prefer isn't the same thing as calling you an idiot or gaslighting you. being frustrated and venting is one thing, but getting indignant over odd assumptions that require radical leaps in logic to arrive at isn't helping anyone.

Nate Holt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:29 pm

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by Nate Holt » Sun May 02, 2021 6:36 pm

"odd assumptions" and "radical leaps in logic". Ok then. If that's what you think then why even respond - keep scrolling or better yet, go enjoy your smoothly running version of 11 and let me yell at clouds.

slow.robot
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by slow.robot » Sun May 02, 2021 8:15 pm

Nate Holt wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:36 pm
"odd assumptions" and "radical leaps in logic". Ok then. If that's what you think then why even respond - keep scrolling or better yet, go enjoy your smoothly running version of 11 and let me yell at clouds.
I respond because I believe in the rationality of human beings. sadly, I’m let down too often. 🤷🏻‍♂️ enjoy your clouds.

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by jestermgee » Sun May 02, 2021 9:35 pm

Nate Holt wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:39 am
Google 'ableton 11 cpu spikes', 'ableton 11 high cpu usage', etc.
Google Pro tools CPU spikes, Bitwig, Cubase.... Same thing on google, shows the exact same problems, confirms nothing.

Issue or not, still no actual details from *most* people that complain about an issue, without any details it's never going to be listened to and in one sentence you say you understand most people everything works fine but your claim is Ableton should own up to this "issue" and confirm it? Seems you do not understand how development works.

If you want things to actually be taken seriously, post details as no one can look into anything without having some clue on how to repro a case.

[jur]
Site Admin
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Location: Ableton

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by [jur] » Sun May 02, 2021 11:07 pm

Many users think they're having CPU spikes with L11 because they don't understand, or didn't read about CPU meter changes in L11.
If you don't have performance and/or audio drop out issue then, just understand what the meter changes are.
Now, if you're having real performance/audio drop outs etc issue, you need to get in touch with support@ableton.com if you didn't find anything helpful over the web.
You don't need a computer science or audio engineering degree to know how to optimize, use external drives, configure hardware, and all else required - it's basic following instructions to get things right that is not helping resolve these problems.
You'd be amazed to see how many people who reach support know very little about computers (and even about how Live works!). It's not necessarily preventing them from making great music, but they just are quickly lost when something unexpected happens.
Also consider that every person has a unique setup. It's a bit easier with Mac users compared to PC since the differences between computers is highly reduced, but still, every one uses a different soundcard, midi controller, screens, drives, wireless gadget, graphics card etc... There's litterally an infinite amount of configurations possible, so be assure that making a DAW solid isn't a piece of cake.
So, you don't need to be an enginneer to understand that when it comes to understanding issues with softwares that run on computers... asking for computers specs is quite crucial. Isn't it?
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TheCoil
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by TheCoil » Mon May 03, 2021 12:38 am

My CPU meter is constantly going crazy over there in the corner in Live 11 but the session itself is working great, no dropouts, no freezes, no clicks and pops, so I don't even pay attention to it. Why worry about the meter spazzing out if it's not affecting your work. Unless it is, then that's a problem.

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Stop gaslighting and fix your cpu issues

Post by jestermgee » Mon May 03, 2021 12:53 am

Also consider that every person has a unique setup. It's a bit easier with Mac users compared to PC since the differences between computers is highly reduced, but still, every one uses a different soundcard, midi controller, screens, drives, wireless gadget, graphics card etc... There's litterally an infinite amount of configurations possible, so be assure that making a DAW solid isn't a piece of cake.
So, you don't need to be an enginneer to understand that when it comes to understanding issues with softwares that run on computers... asking for computers specs is quite crucial. Isn't it?
Sums up a lot I feel.

To just add onto "You don't need to be a computer engineer", this is completely true with a BUT...

You will find many of the users who have few problems or seemingly don't post for help here are the ones who have some above average skills in computers and troubleshooting. Knowing how to investigate, diagnose and research a problem is a skill that was far more common in the 90/00's since not everyone with a heartbeat had a computer and without google, you had no choice other than to learn. Now Google is a replacement for knowledge.

These days people are buying software and gear before they even understand how to plug things together and of course with products like smartphones, macBooks etc. there just seems to be an expectation that everything will "just work" and somehow the user will understand what they are doing out of the box and part the issue is how simple computers and operating systems are nowadays to use, no one considers they may need to spend some time learning and researching some things to understand. The moment something doesn't work, it's a "bug" and if anyone else has a similar experience, that's all the proof needed... it's now a "confirmed bug".

Maybe on some systems there is a problem with performance but to build a case you need evidence and most importantly, the issue needs to be reproducible. If a programmer cannot confirm an issue or see a problem in code, nothing can be done to offer any fix.
You'd be amazed to see how many people who reach support know very little about computers
Would not amaze me in the slightest.

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