Bitwig 4.0 announced

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
chapelier fou
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by chapelier fou » Mon May 31, 2021 9:28 am

@Machinesworking, if I remember well, you do use livelooping techniques.
What's your workaround to record audio loops on the fly ?
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ToneShop
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by ToneShop » Mon May 31, 2021 1:05 pm

Native Apple M1 silicone 🤔

Machinesworking
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:45 pm

chapelier fou wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 9:28 am
@Machinesworking, if I remember well, you do use livelooping techniques.
What's your workaround to record audio loops on the fly ?
Bitwig doesn't have a looper, so for sure Live still holds the upper hand there. :)
Digital Performer when I do anything with live looping.

chapelier fou
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by chapelier fou » Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:34 pm

Thanks. I was more referring to looping in clips.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:26 pm

chapelier fou wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:34 pm
Thanks. I was more referring to looping in clips.
Then I'm lost, are you talking about recording clips one after the other? or stacking audio on the same clip?

chapelier fou
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by chapelier fou » Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:16 am

Clips one after the others.
In Live you can set up a track as the "input" track, and route it to several armed audio tracks.
Then you can trigger the clip slots recording on the selected scene with a dedicated midi message per armed track, thanks to the "track launch" control (available only in MIDI mapping screen). I don't see any comparable feature in Bitwig. Is there any ?
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[jur]
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by [jur] » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:47 pm

chapelier fou wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:16 am
Clips one after the others.
In Live you can set up a track as the "input" track, and route it to several armed audio tracks.
Then you can trigger the clip slots recording on the selected scene with a dedicated midi message per armed track, thanks to the "track launch" control (available only in MIDI mapping screen). I don't see any comparable feature in Bitwig. Is there any ?
So, you're really trying to convert your live setup to Bitwig?
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pottering
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by pottering » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:29 pm

Somebody posted this on KVR, I was going to reply there, but since someone bumped this thread...:

https://github.com/bitwig/dawproject

LOL, they renamed Live's ALS format (with some plausible deniability changes, of course, like always) and open sourced it.

Machinesworking
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:22 am

pottering wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:29 pm
Somebody posted this on KVR, I was going to reply there, but since someone bumped this thread...:

https://github.com/bitwig/dawproject

LOL, they renamed Live's ALS format (with some plausible deniability changes, of course, like always) and open sourced it.
This is a weird flex? Why would Bitwig use Ableton's format as a base for sharing projects between DAWs? that makes absolutely no sense, since Ableton Live, not Bitwig would be the most easily compatible with the format? It would make much more sense for it to be biased slightly towards Bitwig files, but that's not even the point of the whole project, the whole point is less issues not more.

I mean even if the format was closer in structure to Live, it wouldn't be some sort of hinderance to Ableton, if the project takes off, someone could export a project from Logic to Live with no issues, with no real benefit to Bitwig. The whole thing is close to ReWire or VST etc. in that sense than some sort of intellectual property issue like you're painting it out to be.

pottering
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by pottering » Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:08 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:22 am
pottering wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:29 pm
Somebody posted this on KVR, I was going to reply there, but since someone bumped this thread...:

https://github.com/bitwig/dawproject

LOL, they renamed Live's ALS format (with some plausible deniability changes, of course, like always) and open sourced it.
This is a weird flex? Why would Bitwig use Ableton's format as a base for sharing projects between DAWs? that makes absolutely no sense, since Ableton Live, not Bitwig would be the most easily compatible with the format? It would make much more sense for it to be biased slightly towards Bitwig files, but that's not even the point of the whole project, the whole point is less issues not more.

I mean even if the format was closer in structure to Live, it wouldn't be some sort of hinderance to Ableton, if the project takes off, someone could export a project from Logic to Live with no issues, with no real benefit to Bitwig. The whole thing is close to ReWire or VST etc. in that sense than some sort of intellectual property issue like you're painting it out to be.
Why would Bitwig use another format instead of their format used by Bitwig itself?

My guess is it is the same reason Bitwig 4 doesn't actually save as or export ALS or FLP, it only imports those.

Same reason Logic doesn't rewire as device, and doesn't even receive MIDI sync (of course Logic won't export this .dawproject format either, it will at most import it).

Machinesworking
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:39 am

pottering wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:08 am
Machinesworking wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:22 am
pottering wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:29 pm
Somebody posted this on KVR, I was going to reply there, but since someone bumped this thread...:

https://github.com/bitwig/dawproject

LOL, they renamed Live's ALS format (with some plausible deniability changes, of course, like always) and open sourced it.
This is a weird flex? Why would Bitwig use Ableton's format as a base for sharing projects between DAWs? that makes absolutely no sense, since Ableton Live, not Bitwig would be the most easily compatible with the format? It would make much more sense for it to be biased slightly towards Bitwig files, but that's not even the point of the whole project, the whole point is less issues not more.

I mean even if the format was closer in structure to Live, it wouldn't be some sort of hinderance to Ableton, if the project takes off, someone could export a project from Logic to Live with no issues, with no real benefit to Bitwig. The whole thing is close to ReWire or VST etc. in that sense than some sort of intellectual property issue like you're painting it out to be.
Why would Bitwig use another format instead of their format used by Bitwig itself?

My guess is it is the same reason Bitwig 4 doesn't actually save as or export ALS or FLP, it only imports those.

Same reason Logic doesn't rewire as device, and doesn't even receive MIDI sync (of course Logic won't export this .dawproject format either, it will at most import it).
Nothing you're saying is making any sense. One of the guys from Bitwig is attempting to do an open source type universal DAW format, it doesn't look like it's based on .als to me, and it's weird you would think that? It's also weird to think that exporting to other DAW specific formats is at all part of this, again, it's an attempt at a universal format. So the DAWs themselves will have to support importing or exporting to the format themselves, otherwise it won't work, not unlike rewire.

You're reading all kinds of weird things into something that's supposed to be like VST, ReWire etc.

[jur]
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by [jur] » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:52 am

Where's .als mentionned?
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chapelier fou
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by chapelier fou » Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:31 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:47 pm
chapelier fou wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:16 am
Clips one after the others.
In Live you can set up a track as the "input" track, and route it to several armed audio tracks.
Then you can trigger the clip slots recording on the selected scene with a dedicated midi message per armed track, thanks to the "track launch" control (available only in MIDI mapping screen). I don't see any comparable feature in Bitwig. Is there any ?
So, you're really trying to convert your live setup to Bitwig?
Only considering it. I have no Bitwig License for now. Trying to gather some info, but so far my setup seems unreplicable.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

Machinesworking
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:52 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:52 am
Where's .als mentionned?
here:
pottering wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:29 pm
LOL, they renamed Live's ALS format (with some plausible deniability changes, of course, like always) and open sourced it.
In reference to a developer from Bitwig doing a side project attempting to get a universal song transfer format started.

pottering
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Re: Bitwig 4.0 announced

Post by pottering » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:04 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:52 am
Where's .als mentionned?


ALS is a gzipped XML file.

In fact, if you want to know how ALS works just read that "dawproject" page and change the words ".dawproject" to ".als" and "zip" to "gzip" (arguably gzip is zip already).

Or just use 7-zip in any Live Set and see how the XML works.

That also provides a REAL-LIFE example of how a XML file like "dawproject" would work with real plugins, real sample files, etc.

People that really want to push that "dawproject" thing gotta admit it is Live where people will find numerous actual examples of how to implement that "dawproject" thing in the real world, since Ableton already did it, years ago, with millions of users not even noticing it is a gzipped XML.

By the way, Live's ADG, ADV and ALC are also gzipped XML. In case Bitwig comes with "dawpreset" and "dawclips" too ("wow such a innovative company").

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