Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
gdgross
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:03 pm

Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:59 pm

Hi all, I'm trying to find the best way to record a live multitrack performance into arrangement view for later mixing.

I'm using a novation launchkeys mini as my controller, a couple of software tracks, and a handful of real instruments. (guitar, 2x vox, and bass, namely). I will be playing in a drumbeat on the drum track and allowing that to loop, then playing a lead on the synth track and allowing that to loop, and triggering that lead synth scene off and on with my launchkeys. All other audio tracks will be performed live.

So far the method I have is this:
1. hit record in the arrangement view window with the drum track armed.
2. record the drum loop, and let it loop.
3. move over to the synth track, record it and let it loop.
4. THEN, I have to record enable all the remaining tracks, software and real, using my mouse and computer keyboard.
5. Actually perform the song with the three musicians, triggering the lead synth on/off as appropriate.

Is there any way to avoid the cumbersome arming of all the tracks in step 4? I don't know of a way around this, but I'm new to live, maybe y'all can suggest something. I'm getting quicker at it, but it looks pretty silly on video to have to do this with a computer keyboard and mouse (given a more or less traditional band kinda paradigm...)

Thanks,
Geoff

Greenapples2019
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by Greenapples2019 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:46 am

Hi, have you looked at ClyphX Pro (assuming you're not on Live 11)? It allows you to perform multiple tasks either automatically or using a midi controller. So you could do all of what you're looking to do automatically e.g. in session view, trigger scene, record drums for x bars, playback drums and record synth, playback synth and arm other tracks etc. It works brilliantly.

I think there's also an M4L device called Binklooper, named for Binkbeats who does some excellent live looping using Ableton - check him out on YT.

I hope that helps.

Cheers
D

gdgross
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:03 pm

Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:34 pm

I am indeed on v11, but i'll take a look at the things you mentioned - thanks for the tip!

gdgross
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:03 pm

Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:11 pm

Can I set up a midi command that record arms all tracks? If so I could map that to my launchkeys...

schlam
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by schlam » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:10 pm

Hello.
Can very easily be done with maxforlive..

gdgross
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:50 pm

very cool, I will have to look into it. (you do mean arming all tracks I assume, right?)

Also been debating whether to upgrade to a push from my launchkeys, but i don;t think i want a second thing (keyboard) to connect.

chris vine
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by chris vine » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:52 am

I have one button assigned on a controller that arms a bunch of selected tracks for record.

I do live looping and other live recordings in session view. All the tracks are in sync. Anything useful can be put into arrangement view later.
Another midi button selects a new scene for recording and another is mapped to start recording.
All done with a Launchkey mini.
You could probably do all that with Keyboard assign commands too. No need for ClyphX or any other fancy stuff IMO.

You can send audio or midi anywhere in Live and so I keep my record tracks seperate from the instrument/looper/FX tracks.
Arrangement view is a bit static for live playing and recording, for me, anyway.

gdgross
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:03 pm

Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:22 pm

Thanks Chris! This is exactly what I need to hear. Just need to figure out how to do this, hah.

Thus far I've been arming tracks manually and just recording into arrangement view on the same tracks, seems to work ok, since I can still trigger the scenes on and off normally. What's the logic behind separating the instrument/midi tracks?

gdgross
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:03 pm

Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:14 pm

aaand just figured it out via midi learn (CMD + M). works great.

On my lauchkeys editor, I don't' see an option to send cc's instead of notes on the custom button mode, I'll look into that. For now, I've set the "arm all tracks" button to C-2, a note I'm not likely to ever play haha. I also want to look into whether I can set the drum pads and keyboard to a different midi channel, or maybe even have the launchkeys auto select which midi channel it sends data out on based on what track is selected rather than which track(s) are armed. (that would be ideal)

Thanks for the help in any case!

chris vine
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by chris vine » Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:45 pm

gdgross wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:22 pm
What's the logic behind separating the instrument/midi tracks?
I keep them separated so that the record tracks are all in one place - so I can, er, keep track of them. :mrgreen:

In my live rig, I record Mic in, Gtr in, Gtr FX, Midi instruments, Loopers and send FX on different tracks. They are all timestamped in the browser so I can drop them into an arrangement at a later date, if wanted.

I think in the launchkey editor you can assign a specific midi channel for a command - so that C2 could be on a midi channel you don't use for anything else....

Midi learn in Live is great. Very easy, plus, if you open the browser in Midi assign mode, you can edit each parameter - in case you haven't see that yet.

gdgross
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:03 pm

Thanks Chris. Now that I’ve set up a new session this way, it makes total sense and the signal flow is perfect for recording a live performance w looping, triggering scenes, etc.

The launchkeys keyboard defaults to ch1, and the drum pads to ch10. That works for this workflow, and midi learn is great. I’ve assigned a lot of the pads in the launchkeys to various functions already. (like, why oh why is the metronome not on by default, or at least saved in the session?? I've assigned a pad to that lol)

One hiccup. It seems that the midi "input" channels (ie, the ones that have the sounds assigned and pass audio to the recording armed channels) respond to midi messages whether or not they are selected. I can disable this by not monitoring the input channel, but that seems like a pain to do when performing. Is there a setting I can change so that midi channels only make sound when they are selected? I can assign each midi track to a different channel of course, but in the launchkeys you have to use the soft pads for that, and I prefer to keep my pads in session mode to easily navigate scenes.

One other thing I’d LOVE is if I could assign the sustain pedal in the launchkeys to trigger and stop clip recording in session view. (My keyboard skills are limited to mono synths and basic pads so no need for a sustain pedal haha). The sustain pedal defaults to ch1 in the launchkeys, and it can be reassigned, but you have to reassign the whole keyboard along with it every time you reconnect, so it’s a bit impractical.

I wasn’t able to figure out how to map the clip record stop button in live - i want it to apply to any actively recording clip on a selected channel.

gdgross
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:48 pm

Update to my last request for anyone following along at home.

I did learn how to make the sustain pedal on the launchkeys mini start and stop clip recording in scene mode. I had been using the "record" button on the launchkeys, and didn't realize there was a "scene record" button in ableton. I'd been trying to map the sustain pedal to the individual clip rec/play/stop buttons, but of course it would only work for that one clip slot. once i learned of the global scene record, mapping the sustain pedal to that was easy.

Now to figure out my monitoring...

chris vine
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by chris vine » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:17 am

gdgross wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:03 pm

One hiccup. It seems that the midi "input" channels (ie, the ones that have the sounds assigned and pass audio to the recording armed channels) respond to midi messages whether or not they are selected. I can disable this by not monitoring the input channel, but that seems like a pain to do when performing. Is there a setting I can change so that midi channels only make sound when they are selected? I can assign each midi track to a different channel of course, but in the launchkeys you have to use the soft pads for that, and I prefer to keep my pads in session mode to easily navigate scenes.
You could try assigning the same button you are selecting the instrument to switch the instrument itself on and off, or maybe the track on/off?

You'll find a way. For example, I have faders on a controller that control volume faders of instrument channels but they also switch on the midi instrument as soon as the fader starts moving up and then switch off the instrument when they return to zero. Switches can control multiple things at once.

I guess you can't specify different midi channels on the launch key?

gdgross
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by gdgross » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:54 pm

chris vine wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:17 am
You could try assigning the same button you are selecting the instrument to switch the instrument itself on and off, or maybe the track on/off?

You'll find a way. For example, I have faders on a controller that control volume faders of instrument channels but they also switch on the midi instrument as soon as the fader starts moving up and then switch off the instrument when they return to zero. Switches can control multiple things at once.

I guess you can't specify different midi channels on the launch key?
You can switch channels on the lauchkeys, but it's multiple button presses, and then I have to remember what channel I was on last, lol. Ideally, it would communicate with ableton and only transmit midi on the track that's selected.

I'll figure something out hopefully. hah. Worst case I have to assign additional buttons to arm tracks, although I'd prefer to avoid additional button presses; it starts getting hariy when I'm playing guitar and thinking about all the other things my fingers need to to!

chris vine
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Re: Best way to record live looping performances with mix of real and soft instruments

Post by chris vine » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:33 pm

lol yes, takes a while to remember stuff when playing.

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