Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

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TheJPdude
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Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by TheJPdude » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:54 am

Hi everyone - I'm encountering a weird behavior from this and I don't know why - and if I need to file some sort of bug report.

If you open an instance of Analog and turn the filter envelope amount up, even with the cutoff all the way up, you'll notice that if you repeatedly play a key or chord, the sound cuts off and retriggers like it is in note on/note off mode or a very strange voice stealing situation. I've increased polyphony to 32 and I still get this.

Oddly, turning on legato resorts to normal behavior, but now new notes are slurring on to the old notes' envelope, which is not what I want.

Any idea why this is happening? For reference, the Poli synth doesn't do this, nor does any other synth VST I have, which leads me to believe something is messed up.

[jur]
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by [jur] » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:16 am

Could this be related to the velocity>Filter (or Freq) parameter?
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TheJPdude
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by TheJPdude » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:42 pm

[jur] wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:16 am
Could this be related to the velocity>Filter (or Freq) parameter?
Thanks for suggesting - I tried changing both parameters, but still same behavior. Not sure if you or anyone else is able to recreate this behavior or if I should post an audio clip.

[jur]
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by [jur] » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:43 pm

Could you share a preset or a midi clip, or both?
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TheJPdude
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by TheJPdude » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:50 pm

[jur] wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:43 pm
Could you share a preset or a midi clip, or both?
Jur - it's probably fastest to just throw in an analog device into your track, turn up the filter envelope amount and increase the release. you'll hear it cut off like it's voice stealing. But, let me export an audio file to demonstrate as well.

TheJPdude
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by TheJPdude » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:02 pm

https://soundcloud.com/jim-schultz-4/an ... CUxNzZ3x9n

Here you go - first section is an analog instance with the problem. Second is without filter env engaged (and sounds correct) and then back to first section again.

TheJPdude
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by TheJPdude » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:05 pm

Just realized that export was silent? No idea what happened. How do i attach the ableton file?

[jur]
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by [jur] » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:11 pm

TheJPdude wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:05 pm
Just realized that export was silent? No idea what happened. How do i attach the ableton file?
With a Google Drive link, or a Dropbox or something like that.
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TheJPdude
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by TheJPdude » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:14 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:11 pm
TheJPdude wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:05 pm
Just realized that export was silent? No idea what happened. How do i attach the ableton file?
With a Google Drive link, or a Dropbox or something like that.
Hi Jur,

the soundcloud link isn't silent ( I just didn't have my monitors turned on. :lol: :lol: )

Go ahead and take a listen.

[jur]
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by [jur] » Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:12 pm

Ok, will check back tonight when I'm back home.
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[jur]
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by [jur] » Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:36 pm

I can't reproduce here. Are you sure that it's not something with Amp envelope? Or that you're running into the 2nd filter without noticing?
I'd be great if you could share your preset so I can try and observe the signal flow.
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TheJPdude
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by TheJPdude » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:25 am

[jur] wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:36 pm
I can't reproduce here. Are you sure that it's not something with Amp envelope? Or that you're running into the 2nd filter without noticing?
I'd be great if you could share your preset so I can try and observe the signal flow.
Here you go - preset attached.

Let me know if this doesn't work ( i am not a dropbox pro)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2cadkmcpbjcla ... V.adv?dl=0


The issue here is that even with cutoff/filter wide open, any filter envelope modulation value is still bleeding through, when it shouldn't.

In the preset i attached, if you leave the filter envelope wide open, you're still having an effect from that envelope's ADSR. for some reason this isn't too apparent when you are doing a run up and down the keyboard, but if you repeatedly play staccato chords you'll hear what's in my soundcloud file.

[jur]
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by [jur] » Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:58 pm

Thx, I was able to download it.
I'll have a look later today and let you know, cheers.
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[jur]
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by [jur] » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:58 pm

It's because of the very short Filter Envelope release time (5ms).
- If you increase it a little bit it it's better.
- if you switch the curves to Linear then it's better too.

I guess it has to do with its relationship to the Volume envelope (which has a longer release time). We'd tend to think that since the Filter Cutoff is set to max and the envelope has a shape that do "nothing" it should be transparent...
Analog isn't traditional synthesis but physycal modelling so I'm not sure if this is a bug or not.
It's worth reporting to support@ableton.com imo.
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TheJPdude
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Re: Weird Behavior w/ Ableton Analog Instrument

Post by TheJPdude » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:56 pm

[jur] wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:58 pm
It's because of the very short Filter Envelope release time (5ms).
- If you increase it a little bit it it's better.
- if you switch the curves to Linear then it's better too.

I guess it has to do with its relationship to the Volume envelope (which has a longer release time). We'd tend to think that since the Filter Cutoff is set to max and the envelope has a shape that do "nothing" it should be transparent...
Analog isn't traditional synthesis but physycal modelling so I'm not sure if this is a bug or not.
It's worth reporting to support@ableton.com imo.
Thanks for looking at this. I purposely left the release short to accentuate the problem. I think I will report this to Ableton - would it make sense to email AAS about it, since they made the instrument?

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