Need a Better Randomizer

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iancrewe
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:56 am

Need a Better Randomizer

Post by iancrewe » Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:43 pm

Hey folks. I'm trying to randomize an effect applied to an audio clip using an effect rack. I've 30 effects I need to map out on the zone editor, but they have to have an exactly equal chance of being selected - not great when there are 128 options (0 - 127 range). It's important that the effect does not change after the clip is launched (it's okay if it switches after about 8 bars).

The two parameters I know can influence which zone is picked is the Rand button and the chain selector (let me know if there's another way though!)

Here's what I've tried so far:
1. The Rand button seems to only select everything in the 0 - 127 range - mapping it to a key doesn't allow me to change max/min values like with other parameters.
2. The LFO tool for Live (mapped to chain selector) just seems to freerun - I can manually retrigger it, but I would have to do this every time I ran a clip, and I need it to either trigger automatically, or by pressing a key on the keyboard.
3. The MFL LFO (mapped to chain selector) retriggers fine, but for some reason the random option prefers the lowest values - it will repeatedly select the lowest option up to 5x in a row.

This seems like it should be simple in principle, but I can't find any resources for this specific problem, and I've been banging at it for about 5 hours now. Any suggestions?


DISCLAIMER: I am using a 2020 Macbook Pro with the M1 chip, so it's possible there's a compatibility issue involved here.

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EDIT: I thought I might get it to work by setting the Live LFO to random, linking it to the chain selector, then setting it to quickly turn off after a clip is run, using automation with a dummy clip. I think that would lock in whatever random value comes up last. Unfortunately, I can't automate on/off with the LFO this way. Same issue with the shaper, envelope follower, and MFL LFO. I suppose I could just use track automation, but I'd really like to have the effect trigger at any point I move the playhead to. Maybe there's another way to trigger the on/off?

mothergarage
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Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by mothergarage » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:02 am

Map the chain selector to a macro. Have each effect chain on a single position (not a range). Set the min / max of the macro to the number of chains you want to randomize.
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iancrewe
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:56 am

Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by iancrewe » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:45 pm

mothergarage wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:02 am
Map the chain selector to a macro. Have each effect chain on a single position (not a range). Set the min / max of the macro to the number of chains you want to randomize.
Sorry, I should have been more clear - I have been mapping the chain selector to a macro, and it's the macro I've been struggling to randomize. The issue is finding reliable way to randomize them, so that new values are selected only at clip launch and some values aren't preferred over others.

I tried mapping the selector to a key that can be pressed on the keyboard between each play, but that just makes it switch b/t lowest and highest values, without picking anything in between. Tried switching the effects to a single number instead of a range, but no improvement.

I noticed there were options to 'exclude macro from randomization/variations' when I R clicked it, but made sure those were turned off.

iancrewe
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Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by iancrewe » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:52 pm

Got it! My mistake was I kept fiddling with the min/max values allowed by the LFO tools (which don't seem to work for the kind of randomization I need), but didn't change the allowable values in the macro itself with the 'map' button.

This time, I changed the min/max of the macro mapped to the chain selector to 1 - 120 (my original setup, but mapping it to smaller values should work just as well), then linked the Rand button to a key on the keyboard - forgot that button only gives the full 0 -127 range if the macros allow that range. Now the user only has to press the pre-requisite key on the keyboard to randomize it.

It would be even better if the randomization could trigger when the clip is launched, but this at least makes it possible :D

invisibledan
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Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by invisibledan » Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:01 pm

Could you just add a note to each clip, the note that triggers the randomisation?

iancrewe
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Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by iancrewe » Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:28 pm

invisibledan wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:01 pm
Could you just add a note to each clip, the note that triggers the randomisation?
It's meant to work for audio clips, not MIDI ones, so I don't think so? I'm relatively new to music production though, so feel free to let me know if I'm missing something :P

zeropoint
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Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by zeropoint » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:06 pm

iancrewe wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:28 pm
invisibledan wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:01 pm
Could you just add a note to each clip, the note that triggers the randomisation?
It's meant to work for audio clips, not MIDI ones, so I don't think so? I'm relatively new to music production though, so feel free to let me know if I'm missing something :P
I think invisibledan means map a key to your audio clip (to launch it)...and map the same key to the random button. But this would only work for a single clip launch.

Are you on mac or windows ?

If you're on a mac , you can use the built in virtual IAC midi bus to achieve randomisation on clip launch. If you're on windows there are some free alternatives.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... l-MIDI-bus


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkWZ4rt ... =14&t=550s



Create a midi track next to the audio track which houses your clips. Group the channels together.

Once you have installed your virtual bus, follow the instructions in the youtube clip linked above to set it up correctly in Live's prefs.

Route the midi on your midi channel to the virtual bus. Now any midi information sent to that bus can be mapped to functions within Live to achieve all sorts of wonderful things.

Add a midi clip to your grouped midi channel. Program any note you like in there. Duplicate it as many times as you need to match your audio clips.

Drag the clip into the arrange view so you can give yourself cue time to get back to map that random button (as per the linked clip). Enter midi map mode , cue your start position a couple of bars before your clip starts and press play.

Now when you launch the group clips, every audio clip gets launched along with that midi clip which sends your mapped note out through the virtual bus and back to trigger your macro randomisation.

Hope this helps.
MacBook Pro M1, 16GB Ram, 1TB.

iancrewe
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Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by iancrewe » Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:33 pm

Thanks for clarifying zeropoint.

Wow, MIDI mapping really opens up a lot of possibilities! Unfortunately it doesn't quite fit my purpose here, as I need the randomization to occur wherever the playhead is placed in the clip, not just where the MIDI note is. I'll definitely keep that feature in mind though!

zeropoint
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Location: London, UK

Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by zeropoint » Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:04 pm

No worries. But you lost me with:

"as I need the randomization to occur wherever the playhead is placed in the clip, not just where the MIDI note is"

I thought this was what you wanted.

"It would be even better if the randomization could trigger when the clip is launched, but this at least makes it possible "


Can you post an explanation with a screenshot or clip maybe ?
MacBook Pro M1, 16GB Ram, 1TB.

iancrewe
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:56 am

Re: Need a Better Randomizer

Post by iancrewe » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:34 pm

Sorry zeropoint, I don't think I phrased that properly. I should have said "when the user presses play" regardless of where the playhead is on the clip. That's why I was originally trying to find an LFO tool that retriggered whenever play was pressed.

After some though, I prefer the current option of randomization with a key on the keyboard, because I want the user to be able to listen to the same thing multiple times if they want before randomizing again. The only thing about it that still bugs me is the CPU load is pretty high, so I would love a way to disable the tracks whose zones aren't chosen. That will be for another day though.

All that said, I had no idea MIDI could be used the way you described, and I'll definitely find some use for that in future. Thanks again!

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