Using MIDI foot switch with Looper - odd issue

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thirdspace
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:45 pm

Using MIDI foot switch with Looper - odd issue

Post by thirdspace » Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:59 pm

Hi all - my first post!

I’m loving the Looper plugin and everything works as expected when clicking the buttons with a mouse. However I am struggling a little bit with controlling to with a MIDI footpedal. The footpedal is a Behringer FCB1010 with Uno2 chip for info. I have a switch set to send out a single MIDI message (controller CC number 63, value 127) so it is functioning (I think) as a momentary switch, and have assigned this to the big multifunction Rec/Play/Overdub button in Live. Looper responds to the first switch click as expected (goes into record), however a number of odd things happen after that (that don’t happen when clicking with a mouse). I have it set to switch to play rather than overdub on second click as this is my preference.
On second click the recording is captured, but then after a short pause reduces in length
On third click (overdub) the recording doesn’t start immediately and seems to stop before loop end without any further interaction.

Something tells me it doesn’t like the MIDI message but I’m not sure how to resolve?

Any clues would be great - thanks in advance

bbulkow
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 15, 2022 6:00 am

Re: Using MIDI foot switch with Looper - odd issue

Post by bbulkow » Sun May 15, 2022 6:13 am

Me too.

I saw in another thread that they contacted support and support said the manual was wrong, but no post about how it actually works.

I have a theory. If you look at the state diagram in the manual, it says undo / redo is "hold". You can only "hold" if there's a note down-note up event. It's a metaphor that's not used too many other places in Ableton, but it seems pretty useful in this case.

With a CC, there's no way to represent a hold - only with a note, and then, only with note up-note down.

There are also threads referring to Ableton 8 that talk about "relative" and "absolute" mode. I can't find that in ableton 11.

If my theory is right, mapping an actual keyboard should work, which is easy to try - gonna try tomorrow.

And the workaround would be to use a midi translator to send notes, and send the note on and note off quickly, if your footswitch doesn't transmit an up and down at all. I am already using a midi translator, and I've got a custom control surface, so I should be able to get all that working. That would mean that the state diagram transition undo / redo, and clear, wouldn't work, but everything else would. Then one could map another switch just to "clear'.

Gonna try that all tomorrow and report back. Would be interested to hear if anyone else went down this rabbit hole and found the end.

thirdspace
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:45 pm

Re: Using MIDI foot switch with Looper - odd issue

Post by thirdspace » Mon May 16, 2022 3:26 pm

Hey - thanks for your reply - I'd forgotten I'd even posted this!
So what I found was that hooking up a keyboard and pressing notes works just as you predict. And by pressing notes I mean, pressing a key AND letting it go so both Note On and Note Off required as if it was one message.
Luckily my footpedal can be programmed to send multiple messages per 'click' so with one press of a switch on the pedal I am sending something like:
NoteOn 63 127
NoteOn 63 0
in one go
The 2nd message is received immediately after the first (at the speed of MIDI messages) so is to all intents and purposes understood by Ableton as a single command, and triggers the big button on the Looper as expected.

bbulkow
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 15, 2022 6:00 am

Re: Using MIDI foot switch with Looper - odd issue

Post by bbulkow » Mon May 16, 2022 11:02 pm

Hi! Yes, I found basically the same thing - but with one caveat.

In the documentation state diagram, "press and hold" has the key feature of undo / redo, and clear. I find these really important because I screw up a lot in performance.

If you use note on, then hold, then note off, the big button does this - but it probably doesn't do what anyone wants. In play mode the note down switches to overdub, then it will move to a clear.

I think if I got a boss FS-5U (unlatch) it would do exactly as Ableton expects.

While this is OK sometimes - eg, if your quantization and where you pressed it in cycle is right - or you go into overdub and you're not playing and you are headed for a clear - but "sometimes" when you are performing really isn't acceptable.

Thus, I think ableton should document that undo-redo, and clear, can't be done from the multifunction button. At that point, they could use CC messages since they are avoiding the entire press and hold.

I see now where it's really necessary for Ableton to document how the multifunction and midi work.

In any case, I'll be trying Mobious (through JBridge which I hear bad things about), and also mapping my footswitch as you say with down and up on every down, and then mapping another switch to clear (undo and redo seems too complex for me).

Hopefully this thread will help some other person - there seem to be a lot of folks who have asked this over the years.

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