Any possible ways to map non MPE VSTS to work like an MPE compatible plugin?

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MattTheBat
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Any possible ways to map non MPE VSTS to work like an MPE compatible plugin?

Post by MattTheBat » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:00 am

Hey all,

I'm wondering if it's possible to take a non MPE VST like SPITFIRE LABS and do some trickery to make MPE for it work? My only idea is using Ableton's instrument racks (containing duplications of the VST assigned to each seperate note on the keyboard), but am not really sure how to use the instrument racks properly to get MPE working with a non MPE plugin. I know the trickery for doing this is possible, just not sure how others have done it. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
-Matt

Machinesworking
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Re: Any possible ways to map non MPE VSTS to work like an MPE compatible plugin?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:44 pm

You have to go back to pre Live MPE days, deselect the MPE device in MIDI setup preferences as an MPE device, then set up 16 identical instrument tracks with the exact same preset in them controlled individually by the MPE hardware on only one MIDI channel.

You have to set up the non MPE instrument with the widest pitch it can take and all setting before you start or it gets ugly.

MattTheBat
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Re: Any possible ways to map non MPE VSTS to work like an MPE compatible plugin?

Post by MattTheBat » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:33 pm

Responding to Machinesworking:

Is there any videos on how to do this? Also, does each instrument track respond to the number of voices that can be used with the MPE controller? Let's say if there's 5 instrument racks, could I pitch bend per note up to 5 notes? And by 16 instrument tracks, do you mean 16 instrument tracks within 1 instrument rack?

yur2die4
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Re: Any possible ways to map non MPE VSTS to work like an MPE compatible plugin?

Post by yur2die4 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:10 pm

MPE works in a few possible ways depending on the controller. But all it really is in general is, each note you press is a whole separate midi channel instead of just another note on the same midi channel.

Most controllers do channels 2-16, with ch1 being like a ‘master channel’ of sorts (handy for sustain I am guessing). But how they use these channels can vary. Some just go from channel to channel each note you press. Others just always use the lowest channel first and use additional channels the more notes that are pressed. So for that type, I’d you don’t plan to hit more than 8 notes, you only need 8 channels with instances of instruments. But if it’s the type that cycles, then you absolutely need all the channels.

The really fun thing is that Filter (usually cc74) works great with this stuff.
A challenge is determining your application of Pitch Mod. MPE has a way different pitchbend from traditional pb, so you hade to decide if you want to just use what’s there, adjust the plug-in pb range, or change the pb handling on your controller / Live.

The most agonizing part of it all is that if you decide to change anything, you need to change that parameter or find a way to update all 15 instances of the instrument.

Some poly timbral plugins allow you to do all this too, again with some of the challenges in mind.

Machinesworking
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Re: Any possible ways to map non MPE VSTS to work like an MPE compatible plugin?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:55 am

MattTheBat wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:33 pm
Responding to Machinesworking:

Is there any videos on how to do this? Also, does each instrument track respond to the number of voices that can be used with the MPE controller? Let's say if there's 5 instrument racks, could I pitch bend per note up to 5 notes? And by 16 instrument tracks, do you mean 16 instrument tracks within 1 instrument rack?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnfSRr96gdY&t=332s

So basically this can be done with multiple tracks of other instruments besides Kontakt. Like yur2die4 mentioned it's imperative that you tweak the original patch to your liking because the polyphony is going to multiply the pain of changing it after.

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