How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

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nandak
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:29 am

How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by nandak » Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:57 am

Hi all, I have a specific type of use for ableton live. Each of my scenes need to be locked to a specific (bar)position in the arrangement view's timeline . So , my requirement is :
1. Scene 1 playback should correspond to a "loop region" of bars 1-16 in the arrangement view.
2. Scene 2 playback should correspond to a "loop region" of bars 17-32 in the arrangement view.
and so on...
u may be wondering why i want to do this. This is because i have written very fine(gradual) tempo automation for each scene, in the arrangement view. so, when i hit a scene playback , i want that scene to follow the tempo automation written for it. I already read the manual & found 3 methods(none of them work for my requirement):
1. I can write the tempo change in the name of the scene : but this is a sudden change in the tempo. i want the gradual fine tempo automation.
2. In arrangement view, I can take bars 1-16 & "consolidate to new scene". all fine, but i found that this step does not take the tempo automation into the new scene. the session view still depends on the arrangement view timeline's tempo info , for its automation.
3. A partial solution is to just record the audio of this scene with its tempo changes, as a single clip into a new scene. but then, this scene does not properly fit into the 16 bars time, since its tempo fluctuates out-of-sync with the master tempo.

basically, it seems that (fine/gradual) tempo automation is not possible in session view. that is why i need to lock each scene's playback position to specific bars in the arrangement view's timeline.
I hope i explained my requirement clearly. any solutions, i will be grateful.

pottering
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by pottering » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:19 am

You can map a 0 hZ LFO or a flat Shaper to the tempo and automate offset/range/depth/etc. to automate the tempo indirectly with Clip Automation or Clip Modulation, there are also some M4L devices that can change tempo directly that seem made for that.

If your fine tempo automation was cyclic maybe you can use LFO and Shaper almost directly (Shaper in particular can go to 32 bars and you can draw arbitrary shapes), with some retrigger automation.
♥♥♥

nandak
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:29 am

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by nandak » Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:17 am

thanks for your reply. i thought about your suggestion. My tempo automations are not a repeating pattern based tempo change , which can be recreated on a LFO. they are very fine tempo automations imported from melodyne. If there is a way to take the tempo info from melodyne's midi clip & turn it into clip automation in session view, it should work. I did try dropping the midi file from melodyne as a clip into session view. but session view ignores the tempo automation in the midi file. only when i drag it into arrangement view timeline, LIVE recognizes the tempo automation .
Let me know if there is a way to achieve this in session view.
here is a little more detail :
1. I play many acoustic guitar styles which cannot be played to a click. melodyne frees me from the tyranny of following a click. i can give it a freely played guitar track ( which was not played to a click). it perfectly recognizes the played tempo over each bar & creates a midi tempo automation which PERFECTLY corresponds to the natural tempo changes in my playing.
2. this is the tempo automation which i import into LIVE & it works perfectly only in arrangement view.

I hope its now clear why i want each scene in session view(intro,verse,chorus etc) to follow the tempo changes from arrangement view.

chapelier fou
Posts: 6012
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by chapelier fou » Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:43 am

How did you import the tempo map from melodyne to Live ?
Anyway, it’s doable with max for live. I can have a look but currently away from home, no computer.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
MacStudio M1Max 32Go OS 12.3.1

nandak
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:29 am

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by nandak » Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:46 am

oh, thats very simple. melodyne exports a tempo map in the midi file format. just drag & drop this file into the arrangement view in LIVE.

pottering
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by pottering » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:40 am

I cannibalized a M4L device named "Tempo Slice" from Daniel Hilse (who seems to part of pATCHES.zone, couldn't find the device for download anymore), removing most stuff and leaving only a 20. to 999. knob that controls tempo, seems it is possible then to simply copy-paste the tempo envelope from Master into that knob's envelope (since units and scale are the same, 20. to 999. linear).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjhplt0ivg006 ... .amxd?dl=0
♥♥♥

chapelier fou
Posts: 6012
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by chapelier fou » Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:47 am

Seems clever. Didn't think of copying the automation lane !
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
MacStudio M1Max 32Go OS 12.3.1

pottering
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by pottering » Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:46 am

One small advantage of NOT really knowing how to patch stuff in Max!
♥♥♥

nandak
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:29 am

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by nandak » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:19 am

pottering wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:40 am
I cannibalized a M4L device named "Tempo Slice" from Daniel Hilse (who seems to part of pATCHES.zone, couldn't find the device for download anymore), removing most stuff and leaving only a 20. to 999. knob that controls tempo, seems it is possible then to simply copy-paste the tempo envelope from Master into that knob's envelope (since units and scale are the same, 20. to 999. linear).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjhplt0ivg006 ... .amxd?dl=0
Thank you ! Interesting idea, though i did not fully understand the step needed to achieve this(I am not familiar with using max4live). Would u be able to give me a little more detailed steps on how to use this in my session. I am assuming that your hack allows me to use tempo automation in the session view itself (?)

chapelier fou
Posts: 6012
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: How to lock scenes to arrangement view positions

Post by chapelier fou » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:05 pm

It's like any device.
Drop it in a track (preferably MIDI, since you can create empty clips), create a clip, automate the tempo. You should be able to copy the tempo automation from your master track to the clip.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
MacStudio M1Max 32Go OS 12.3.1

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