Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

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theijblom
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:03 pm

Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by theijblom » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:10 pm

Hi,

Since a couple of months, i've been experimenting with live audio processing for live performances. Right now i'm still just trying to record some idea's, some impros and what not. I have an AKAI MIDIMIX and i'm only using the Pitchloop89 by Robert Henke.
I've mapped all controls to the midimix and record audio trough an interface with a mic.
My biggest problem is this: if i record one take of something, i see it records the automation etc. But if i then go and record another take on the same track, the effect parameters bounce back to the ending position of the first take. And now it has come so far that my original take doesn't sound the same anymore as when i recorded it the first time!
Am i missing something really important? Or do i have to just make a new track for every take?
Is there a way that i can record the audio with the FX and automation in a sort of clip way? And that if i then start moving my dials on the midimix with the second take, nothing will change for the first take?

Please let me know if you can help, or if my question needs to be phrased differently!

Thanks in advance.

[jur]
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Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by [jur] » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:04 pm

Do you mean that after your 1st pass tweaking e.g parameter A and B, you want to do a second pass to record parameters C and D while keeping the A and B automations you created during the 1s pass?
Is that it?
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schlam
Posts: 144
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Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by schlam » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:49 am

Hello.
If i understand well you are talking about IMO one of the worst problem of Ableton.

When you record the 1st arrangement clip in a new set, anywhere in the time line, the automations are recorded at the beginning of the clip at the position they realy are.

If you want after this clip to record another clip, whatever you move all the parameters where you want them to be recorded, those positions will be not recorded. The 2nd clip will always starts with the automations lanes at the last positions of the precedent clip.

It's for me a total non-sens !

I already fill a bug report for that.
They can reproduce but told me that there is not enough person who complained about that to try to fix it.

For me it should be normal to record each automation with the value of the parameters that is actually choosen. Automation breakpoints have to be created for each automation at both edges of clips.


Please, contact support about that !

theijblom
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:03 pm

Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by theijblom » Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:05 pm

Hi,

I think you're exactly describing my situation!
It's really annoying because when i listen back to lets say the second clip, it sounds completely different from when i actually recorded it.
I'll definitely make a report, thanks for the suggestion!

theijblom
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:03 pm

Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by theijblom » Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:09 pm

[jur] wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:04 pm
Do you mean that after your 1st pass tweaking e.g parameter A and B, you want to do a second pass to record parameters C and D while keeping the A and B automations you created during the 1s pass?
Is that it?
Yeah, basically! For instance, i'm using a plugin called Pitchloop89. I have it mapped to my midi-controller, and start recording. I sing/play something and go to town with the parameters. After i finish, i want to record a second take, completely different. I start recording, play or sing something different and go to town with the parameters again. After i finish, i listen back to the first/second take, and they sound not at all how they sounded when i was recording it!

theijblom
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:03 pm

Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by theijblom » Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:09 pm

schlam wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:49 am
Hello.
If i understand well you are talking about IMO one of the worst problem of Ableton.

When you record the 1st arrangement clip in a new set, anywhere in the time line, the automations are recorded at the beginning of the clip at the position they realy are.

If you want after this clip to record another clip, whatever you move all the parameters where you want them to be recorded, those positions will be not recorded. The 2nd clip will always starts with the automations lanes at the last positions of the precedent clip.

It's for me a total non-sens !

I already fill a bug report for that.
They can reproduce but told me that there is not enough person who complained about that to try to fix it.

For me it should be normal to record each automation with the value of the parameters that is actually choosen. Automation breakpoints have to be created for each automation at both edges of clips.


Please, contact support about that !
Hi,

I think you're exactly describing my situation!
It's really annoying because when i listen back to lets say the second clip, it sounds completely different from when i actually recorded it.
I'll definitely make a report, thanks for the suggestion!

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 5307
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by [jur] » Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:36 pm

What you need to do is it to turn off Rec and back to on between each pass.
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schlam
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:51 am

Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by schlam » Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:26 am

@jur

It's not working I think.

_Open a new live set
_tweak some device parameters to position X
_start record arrangement
_move parameters to Y
_stop recording
_move parameters back to X
_start recording

---the automation at the beginning of the 2nd clip will be set to Y et not X.

[jur]
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Location: Ableton

Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by [jur] » Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:04 am

Oh yeah, that one... Yep it's annoying but it also makes some sense in a way.
It happens if, when recording your 1s clip, there's no automation point already registered for your parameter.
The trick is to create an automation point for a parameter's "default" value at the start of the Arrangement. Then, you're good... most of the time.
Well, it can be broken when moving clips without selecting its whole automations length (e.g when an automation is longer than the clip).

I'm pretty sure it's a consequence of Live's "stripped down" (and I think it's mostly a big advantage) automation recording system:
If you look at other DAWS, you always need to switch back and forth between automation recording mode (e. Touch, Latch, Write etc...) and automation reading mode. In Live you don't have to think about it, but there's this consequence that we're talking about.
Don't quote me on that, that's just my own interpretation; maybe the reasons are different.
Ableton Forum Moderator

schlam
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:51 am

Re: Record automation and audio (including fx) onto track

Post by schlam » Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:43 pm

Yes.
But Support confirmed me that it's a bug but they will not fix it until more people ask for that.

I think it's not normal that Live decides of what has to be a parameter value in the "future". There is no reason IMO that a value at the end of a clip becomes the value of this parameter in the next clip that is even not recorded at this moment.

We tweak parameters to have the sound that we want to simply record in a clip, but we will never have this sound that we made, this clip will always starts with the values of the précédent clip.
I cannot see a situation where it's useful.

Another problem is that Ableton doesn't create automation breakpoint on both edges of a clip, even if automation lane are flat on this clip..

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