How to configure the control room setup for the master and cue outputs?

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tonfilm
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How to configure the control room setup for the master and cue outputs?

Post by tonfilm » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:42 pm

Hello,

software room adjustments are a common thing today. How can you configure Ableton Live to use a VST plugin generally on the master main out and cue out which doesn't get rendered into the mixdown? Ideally, it would be an effect rack to switch between different outputs, configurations, or such...

For example, when using Sonarworks Reference 4 or Slate Digital VSX which are both plugins you put on the master (and cue!), but you don't want them to render into the mixdown.

Any hints welcome, including 3rd party software, if not possible in Ableton Live.

subparuser
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Re: How to configure the control room setup for the master and cue outputs?

Post by subparuser » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:58 pm

I don't know about the "cue" but you can certainly achieve this easily for the mixdown.

Essentially you have to set up your own bussing using the "Audio To" and "Audio From" dropdown in the mixer, and route your mixdown to this buss (track).

Creat an audio track. Name it "Mixdown" (or anything you like). Send the output of this track to the Master in the "Audio To" dropdown.

Create another track. Name it "Monitor" or "Speakers" or "Phones" as approriate. Configure it to receive the audio from your previously created "Mixdown" track in its "Audio From" dropdown. Send its audio output to the approriate hardware outputs in its "Audio To" dropdown. Insert correction plugins on this track.

You can create as many monitoring tracks as you need this way, just as long as you configure them to receive audio from the "Mixdown" track (buss).

Of course, you now need to configure all tracks to output to the "Mixdown" buss (track) instead of the default (Master) in their "Audio To" dropdown.

tonfilm
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Re: How to configure the control room setup for the master and cue outputs?

Post by tonfilm » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:35 pm

Thanks, this is an excellent idea, but unfortunatley it doesn't include the cue output. This is a problem because if the cue out goes directly to the hardware output, it won't be processed (which can be a significant difference) and the level is 100% which will blow out the speakers... I can turn it down, but it is still an error source and potentially damages the hardware.

I am currently looking into using the Voicemeeter Banana mixer and its virtual ASIO driver, it also has virtual ASIO inserts that can plug in vsthost64 or LightHost but it is a bit painful to configure and hard to startup correctly every time.

subparuser
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Re: How to configure the control room setup for the master and cue outputs?

Post by subparuser » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:08 pm

[edit]

I think you should take a look at Blue Cat Audio Connector, and their ASIO driver.

Seems like it should solve the problem.

tonfilm
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Re: How to configure the control room setup for the master and cue outputs?

Post by tonfilm » Sat Oct 22, 2022 4:37 pm

Just an update here, I've figured out a way without any third-party software that works but introduces latency. And unfortunately, it only works with sound cards that support digital loopback.

The idea is to send the master and the cue outputs to an inaudible stereo channel of the soundcard and then loop it back into Ableton Live to process it with VSTs, like Slate VSX or Sonarworks SoundID Reference, and then send it to the actual audible outputs like speakers or headphones.

This is building an actual control room effect section in Ableton Live, how it should be in the Software(!). I've solved that with an Audio Effect Rack with 3 chains. Thru, Headphones and Speakers and then assigned the controls to a midi controller:

Image

This is how it looks in my soundcard driver, it is a MOTU Ultralite Mk4, your soundcard might have similar settings. If not, you can try a digital loopback with a cable, S/PDIF, or optical:

Image

zeepster
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Re: How to configure the control room setup for the master and cue outputs?

Post by zeepster » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:15 pm

Thanks for posting your solution. Unfortunately my interface doesn't have loopback.
I wish Live had this functionality already.

tonfilm
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Re: How to configure the control room setup for the master and cue outputs?

Post by tonfilm » Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:01 pm

zeepster wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:15 pm
Thanks for posting your solution. Unfortunately my interface doesn't have loopback.
I wish Live had this functionality already.
Yes, Live should definitely have a configurable control room in the master section!

If you don't have software loopback you can try the digital in/out with an s-pdif or optical cable. Make sure the loopback is digital and has no DA/AD conversion.

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