Help! Strange problem when using MIDI Network to sync two machines

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TafKiwi
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:53 am

Help! Strange problem when using MIDI Network to sync two machines

Post by TafKiwi » Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:54 pm

Hey! So I’m using a Midi network to control two macbooks, each running an instance of Live. The idea is for Macbook 1 (leader) to be on-stage to output tracks and audio, and for Macbook 2 (follower) to be offstage controlling patch changes for Kemper amps and the light show.

Macbook 1 has locators set at the start of each song in the set so I can easily begin each track on Macbook 1 and have Macbook 2 jump to the correct spot in the arrangement.

Now, this works perfectly - UNTIL we reach bar 1005 in the arrangement. As soon as I try to trigger any locator beyond bar 1005 in Macbook 1’s arrangement, Macbook 2 jumps back to the beginning of the project.

For example, if I place a locator at bar 1006 and hit play on Macbook 1, Macbook 2 plays from bar 1 of the arrangement. If I place a locator at bar 1007 on Macbook 1 and hit play, Macbook 2 plays from bar 2 of the strangely, and so forth.

I’m absolutely pulling my hair out over this because I can’t seem to find a single reason why this should be happening - it’s so frustrating that it all works perfectly up until a certain point in the project!

Does anyone have any idea at all why this could be happening? Thank you in advance!

randi
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Re: Help! Strange problem when using MIDI Network to sync two machines

Post by randi » Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:03 pm

not exactly sure if this is the problem, but Live's songs length "grows" dynamically and the growing part takes some time. You could hit the initial limit on MB2. Maybe try placing something/anything (empty clip) on mb2 at bar 2005, so that the song is already longer and doesn't need to grow first.

RobrechtV
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:32 pm

Re: Help! Strange problem when using MIDI Network to sync two machines

Post by RobrechtV » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 pm

I wonder if you're running into a limitation of MIDI Clock. Turns out MIDI Clock uses a Song Position Pointer (SPP) which contains a 14-bit value specifying "the number of MIDI beats (1 MIDI beat = a 16th note = 6 clock pulses) since the start of the song" (from Wikipedia). The maximum value of a 14-bit number is 16383, and 16383 divided by 16 is 1023.9375... which is close to the number of bars in your project after which the position wraps back around to zero.

Maybe you could look into using MIDI Timecode instead. You'll need a Max4Live device to generate it, but the follower Macbook should be able to use it out of the box, if this help article is up to date.

(Not very knowledgeable on this myself, I just found this problem fascinating.)

TafKiwi
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:53 am

Re: Help! Strange problem when using MIDI Network to sync two machines

Post by TafKiwi » Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:18 pm

RobrechtV wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 pm
I wonder if you're running into a limitation of MIDI Clock. Turns out MIDI Clock uses a Song Position Pointer (SPP) which contains a 14-bit value specifying "the number of MIDI beats (1 MIDI beat = a 16th note = 6 clock pulses) since the start of the song" (from Wikipedia). The maximum value of a 14-bit number is 16383, and 16383 divided by 16 is 1023.9375... which is close to the number of bars in your project after which the position wraps back around to zero.
Turns out this is exactly the issue. It’s simply a MIDI clock limitation, and as far as I can tell there isn’t a way around it while using MIDI clock - I’ll have to look into timecodes and see if there’s a way to make that work!

RobrechtV
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:32 pm

Re: Help! Strange problem when using MIDI Network to sync two machines

Post by RobrechtV » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:50 pm

Hah, cool! According to the help page I linked above it should be possible by using a Max4Live device to generate the Timecode. In fact, that page in turn links to this one for such tools, where your exact use case seems to be covered:
Livesync
Sometimes one computer with Ableton Live is just not enough. Livesync keeps two sets synchronous, and optionally mirrors clip play commands. Example use cases are [...] running video and lighting from the front of house, synced to the set on stage.
By the way, I just now noticed you're also controlling Kempers from Live, any chance you're using my old Max4Live device for that? 8) (If not: give it a try, I find it much more convenient than editing CCs in Live.)
TafKiwi wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:54 pm
Hey! So I’m using a Midi network to control two macbooks, each running an instance of Live. The idea is for Macbook 1 (leader) to be on-stage to output tracks and audio, and for Macbook 2 (follower) to be offstage controlling patch changes for Kemper amps and the light show.

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