Instrument Rack Mapping Question

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otalgia99
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:21 am

Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by otalgia99 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:53 pm

Greetings everyone

I don't usually map performance controllers in the instrument racks I make.

So I notice now for the first time that a mapping I created to link a Macro to the mod wheel on a controller keyboard (via MIDI map) seems to be valid only for the set in which it was created.

When I instantiate the instrument in a new set, that one mod wheel mapping isn't retained (tho the Macro for it is of course still there), and I must re-MIDI-map the macro to the mod wheel all over again for that (and each) new set the instrument gets used in.

In general I bet we're all a lot happier that it works this way, but just this once I would like that mod wheel assignment to live with the rack in my user collection. Is there some other way to associate a macro to a performance controller that is retained with the instrument all the time, but without altering or permanently changing anything other than that one assignment on that one instrument?

Happy to clarify if I have not described this well enough.

O99
Perform. rig
MacBook Pro 2015 | OS 12.6 | 2.8 GHz Quad Intel i7 | 16Gb RAM | 4 Tb External HDD (USB3) | MicroBook IIc | Akai APC40 MkII | LIVE 11 Suite

Prod. rig
Mac Studio M1 Max | OS 13.2.1 | 64 Gb RAM | MiniStack STX | ApolloX6 | Live 11 Suite

Quiet Erp
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:17 am

Re: Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by Quiet Erp » Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:33 am

Live wont save your specific mapping when you drag them into a set that's already open. The way round is to save the instrument track, with mapping,as a template. It will become an ".als". Then open the set. If you drag it in after opening a set it wont keep the mapping. Its a pain in the ass. I have a template with mostly global & transport mappings. Navigation, transport etc that I use to start all new projects.
Some VSTs will let you change the cc numbers permanently and you can save that as your default. Then every time you open the VST it will have the assigned cc numbers.
Annoying & confusing. Its best to avoid mapping the mod wheel to be honest. It can cause midi conflicts and weird behavior down the line.

otalgia99
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:21 am

Re: Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by otalgia99 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:39 am

Thank you very much for your thoughtful and comprehensive reply.

As I mentioned in the original post, I'm not really an experienced mapper by any means (other than I / E Racks macros... I map those routinely, but only to control parameters in the various effects or instruments themselves.)

Your comment about potential conflicts stemming from mapping the mod wheel is particularly interesting. I'll un-map it from the one set in which I made that assignment, since I don't anticipate using it all that much anyway.

But do I take your meaning to be that these difficulties can extend to functionality beyond the specifically-assigned environment?

In other words, can an isolated Mod Wheel mapping in some Live set somewhere, utterly unto itself, suddenly cause problems in, say, a stand-alone VI instantiation?

Thanks again for the wisdom!

O99
Perform. rig
MacBook Pro 2015 | OS 12.6 | 2.8 GHz Quad Intel i7 | 16Gb RAM | 4 Tb External HDD (USB3) | MicroBook IIc | Akai APC40 MkII | LIVE 11 Suite

Prod. rig
Mac Studio M1 Max | OS 13.2.1 | 64 Gb RAM | MiniStack STX | ApolloX6 | Live 11 Suite

yur2die4
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Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
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Re: Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:44 pm

Rather than mapping the mod wheel, you could add a M4L modulation mapper that automatically responds to mod wheel.

Then assign that m4l device to a macro.

otalgia99
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:21 am

Re: Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by otalgia99 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:41 pm

That's a cool suggestion -- and I imagine that such a mapping would be retained if the instrument were saved as a user preset, rather than needing to be re-assigned each time.

Thanks!
O99
Perform. rig
MacBook Pro 2015 | OS 12.6 | 2.8 GHz Quad Intel i7 | 16Gb RAM | 4 Tb External HDD (USB3) | MicroBook IIc | Akai APC40 MkII | LIVE 11 Suite

Prod. rig
Mac Studio M1 Max | OS 13.2.1 | 64 Gb RAM | MiniStack STX | ApolloX6 | Live 11 Suite

yur2die4
Posts: 7153
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
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Re: Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:09 pm

I will test it out tonight perhaps.

-Make kit
-make rack with macro
-add m4l modulation device (comes with Live Suite, I think it is in MIDI devices)
-assign Mod to the macro in question. (And test that it works without having to do midi mapping)
-save rack

Open new set and drag it in. See if mod is still assigned.

yur2die4
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Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
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Re: Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:23 pm

The device in MIDI devices is called Expression Control. And it works wonderfully. Extremely versatile.

otalgia99
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:21 am

Re: Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by otalgia99 » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:10 am

HUGE thanks!

Best,

O99
Perform. rig
MacBook Pro 2015 | OS 12.6 | 2.8 GHz Quad Intel i7 | 16Gb RAM | 4 Tb External HDD (USB3) | MicroBook IIc | Akai APC40 MkII | LIVE 11 Suite

Prod. rig
Mac Studio M1 Max | OS 13.2.1 | 64 Gb RAM | MiniStack STX | ApolloX6 | Live 11 Suite

otalgia99
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:21 am

Re: Instrument Rack Mapping Question

Post by otalgia99 » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:21 am

....And oh yeah, THAT works.

EXPRESSION CONTROL is a great resource, I can see that I will be using it more in future.

Thanks so much!

O99
Perform. rig
MacBook Pro 2015 | OS 12.6 | 2.8 GHz Quad Intel i7 | 16Gb RAM | 4 Tb External HDD (USB3) | MicroBook IIc | Akai APC40 MkII | LIVE 11 Suite

Prod. rig
Mac Studio M1 Max | OS 13.2.1 | 64 Gb RAM | MiniStack STX | ApolloX6 | Live 11 Suite

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