How to Minimize Latency?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
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slelmir
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:43 pm

How to Minimize Latency?

Post by slelmir » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:59 pm

Hi everybody, I'm new to Ableton and music software in general. I was wondering what might be the best way to minimize the latency in Ableton Live, because if I want to play these VST instruments live I'd like to have the least latency possible.

My setup is a Novation Launchkey 88 USB straight into my laptop (Acer Predator Helios) opened up in Ableton Live 11 Lite.
Going off the MME/DirectX driver at a 96000 sample rate and everything else default, I have 42.7 ms of overall latency.
I've also downloaded the ASIO4All v2 driver. At 96000 sample rate and everything default, I have 13.1 ms of overall latency.

However, the ASIO driver changes the quality of the sound of my VSTs drastically, and I'm not sure what the problem is. I turned off the Dolby Audio settings, I didn't see any enhancements on my speakers that I needed to turn off. And that's as far as I've gotten. Thanks for any advice you guys can give me!

slelmir
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:43 pm

Re: How to Minimize Latency?

Post by slelmir » Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:53 am

Trevbo wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:46 pm
slelmir wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:59 pm
Hi everybody, I'm new to Ableton and music software in general. I was wondering what might be the best way to minimize the latency in Ableton Live, because if I want to play these VST instruments live I'd like to have the least latency possible.

My setup is a Novation Launchkey 88 USB straight into my laptop (Acer Predator Helios) opened up in Ableton Live 11 Lite.
Going off the MME/DirectX driver at a 96000 sample rate and everything else default, I have 42.7 ms of overall latency.
I've also downloaded the ASIO4All v2 driver. At 96000 sample rate and everything default, I have 13.1 ms of overall latency.

However, the ASIO driver changes the quality of the sound of my VSTs drastically, and I'm not sure what the problem is. I turned off the Dolby Audio settings, I didn't see any enhancements on my speakers that I needed to turn off. And that's as far as I've gotten. Thanks for any advice you guys can give me!
definitely use ASIO over DirectX

if you are not using a 'dedicated audio device' for music making you will get quite high latency, your built-in laptop sound card won't cut it.

try running at 48khz sample rate to see if the sound of the vst's works better, might be a sample rate issue due to the internal sound card.

also lower the buffer size to 128 samples in Ableton preferences
Sorry, but what is a "dedicated audio device?" I changed the sample rate back to 48 khz and it didn't make a difference, and the buffer size is stuck to 512 samples I think when the ASIO driver is active. I also think I saw somewhere on the Internet that it could just be a playback issue on whatever I'm monitoring through, but will sound different when played back elsewhere? I'm not sure, but I'm not that deep into the software yet.

I ran the LatencyMon program on my laptop like Ableton recommended, and it told me that my system as is won't cut it for real time audio work. I guess that's why Mac's are better known for music production? If so, I'm not ready to shell out the cash for that right now, so I found this guide to optimize my computer for real time audio: http://www.livefactory.com/forum/rack-p ... t/post/326
Do you have any thoughts?

slelmir
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:43 pm

Re: How to Minimize Latency?

Post by slelmir » Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:33 am

Trevbo wrote:
Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:52 am

Ah, after looking at those links, I realized you were talking about an audio interface! I didn't know they could be referred to as a sound card. I definitely don't have one of those right now, I've been going off the built-in one in my laptop, if it really even has one. Under my sound devices it lists: NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device [Wave Extensible] [WDM] and Realtek High Definition Audio.

So just having an audio interface into my laptop USB will help my performance?

Also, I've done a couple things based on that list like update drivers, BIOS, Windows Update, game booster, etc. I don't see any improvement on Ableton latency. I guess those things haven't really helped then?

Still haven't figured out my issue with the difference in sound quality of VSTs in standalone VS opened up as a plugin within Ableton using ASIO driver. Entering music production is a real bitch for me, lol. I guess it doesn't help this is a gaming laptop from 2017 either.

Just figured out how to reduce ASIO buffer size 8)

slelmir
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:43 pm

Re: How to Minimize Latency?

Post by slelmir » Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:23 am

Awesome, thanks so much!

baseinstinct
Posts: 927
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:45 am

Re: How to Minimize Latency?

Post by baseinstinct » Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:48 pm

Alternative perspective for your consideration. Personally, I have never managed to convince myself that such a wonderfully portable thing as a laptop deserves to be 'chained' to a box which does nothing ;)

When going for an external audiocard with low latency capabilities, I think it's important to keep in mind that the computer still processes all the information that goes into it. Even with a good card, you may need to increase latency to prevent music from stuttering when creating a power-hungry project.

After years of searching for the best solution, I've found that dividing song creation into two stages works well. First, I use a hardware groovebox for the song skeleton, including drums, any abrupt elements, and arrangement. This method allows me to focus on creating engaging arrangements on the fly without any perceived latency. The limitations imposed by the hardware encourage focusing on the song's evolution rather than sound engineering.

Once the skeleton is in place, import the track into Live and then separate the song into clips for further control. You may also want to remove any drastic inconsistencies and add effects, automation, hooks, and variations. At this stage, latency isn't as much of a concern. Ableton is indispensable in the song's middle-to-final stages.
If you follow this path, some grooveboxes have reasonable professional sound interfaces comparable to budget standalone cards (although not as good as hi-profile ones), and if you have specific needs for midi in/out/through, audio in/out, CV, etc, grooveboxes have that, too.

kitekrazy
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: How to Minimize Latency?

Post by kitekrazy » Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:26 pm

Trevbo wrote:
Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:52 am
slelmir wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:59 pm
Looking like your sound card is not powerful enough. You need a lower than 512 buffer in 2023.

You could check what your internal sound card is and update the firmware, might help.

A dedicated audio device is usually an usb sound card like this -

https://motu.com/en-us/products/m-series/m2/

https://www.thomann.de/de/motu_m2.htm?s ... 9&reload=1

A device like this will have you running at 64 buffer easy and a 3ms latency

Most of us are using USB audio devices. Even people with Mac’s.
That depends on what you are working on. I set most of mine at 512.

I also use 44K. 48K is for working with video.

I imagine most Window laptops are not optimized for audio. Apple is better until an OS update breaks something.

Low priced USB interfaces don't always give you low latency unlike an RME Babyface.

ASIO4ALL = AWEFUL4ALL

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