Sound Quality In Live

Dodge · Post by **Dodge** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:10 am

Not sure what if anything I am doing wrong here so I would appreciate your help.

I 'DJ' using Live 5 and an Apple Imac G5. Normally I download tunes in MP3 format from Beatport, DJ Download etc.. which I then warp in Live before cutting the tune into smaller pieces (intro, intro 2, main body etc...). These files I consolidate, add follow actions and save.

Last night I tried to do a promo mix, recorded and rendered the set and burned it to CD. The final recording lacks any real life has poor bass, and lots of top end. The beats sound really piercing and certainly lack the punch of the original track. When another tune mixes in its very noticeable. The overall sound is poor and very washed out.

My .als is set up with an EQ3 on each channel which normally has the 'L' and 'H' kill switches activated so that I can mix with the 'FreqLow' and 'FreqHi' controls. I also have 'Reverb', 'Ping Pong' and 'Beat Repeat' on each channel however these are off unless in action.

On the master out I have another EQ3 (low mid, high bass) Compressor II and SupaTrigga. My question is, what am I doing that makes the mix sound so bad? Should I be mixing with the cross fader to improve things as I never did as a 'traditional DJ'.

PLEASE HELP!

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:39 am

I dont DJ with Live, but try using the RePitch warp mode mode, and make sure your tracks are warped accurately ... zoom right into the waveform when adjusting warp markers.

Dodge · Post by **Dodge** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:52 am

elemental wrote:I dont DJ with Live, but try using the RePitch warp mode mode, and make sure your tracks are warped accurately ... zoom right into the waveform when adjusting warp markers.

I'll try the other warp mode, thanks.

All tracks are warped properly and are tested against a sample loop before saving to make sure they are accurate. I think its more to do with the effects, EQ set up I am using. How do others DJ using Live (crossfader / bass drop outs)? I know that some use the high and low pass filters, I presume these are the ones set up in EQ3 but I can never get this to sound right, dropping the low pass filter seems to suck the life out of the tune.

The set up sounds fine in a club, but when I record and burn to CD it sounds lifeless.

Hedroom · Post by **Hedroom** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:54 am

Try EQ4 perhaps. Many on here find it more transparent than EQ3 and it uses less cpu too!

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:54 am

Hmm... i do this every other weekend and it works fine.
are you positive your EQs are set properly - remember that all the way round is 100% not at 12 oclock..

Dodge · Post by **Dodge** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:56 am

Splashmas wrote:Try EQ4 perhaps. Many on here find it more transparent than EQ3 and it uses less cpu too!

OK, I'll give it a go. I only use three as you can map the controls to the rotary fader on the BCR2000, many thanks.

Dodge · Post by **Dodge** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:58 am

jeskola wrote:Hmm... i do this every other weekend and it works fine.
are you positive your EQs are set properly - remember that all the way round is 100% not at 12 oclock..

Positive. Going to take a look at EQ4 to see if this improves the situation.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:56 pm

what you hear when mixing should be exactly what gets rendered, unless you are not recording your automation as you mix, then you render after mixing, thus not capturing you automation. A sure way to get exactly what you are mixing live captured every time is to have an extra track with the input set to "master in", start a clip recording on this track, and have at it with your mix. That way, you capture exactly what you hear live while mixing--if you liked the sound of it when mixing, then you should be set. Also, if you are starting off with less than ideal mp3s (esp if lower than 192), and mixing a bunch together, there is no way it will sound as good as if you had started with high quality .wav files.

Ryan

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:18 pm

you can map the controls of your bcr onto EQ 4 too you know. there are little frequency boxes in the GUI that you should be linking to.

Adamy Jay did an in-depth post about this an Aeon ago if you can find it

GK · Post by GK » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:45 pm

Well , i face the same problem , but i dont see DIFFERENCE between the sound i have when mixing and the sound i hear afterwards....

I am convinced it's caused by my lame lame cheap Laptop on board soundcard[pathetic] .
I mean,i may be PERFECTLY beatmatching[warping] 2 tracks,but when played live,cause...just noise.!!!!

In fact,i'm thinking of investing to a new 2-chan output ext usb Maya or something , and i hope this will make things sound A LOT better...

maybe some soundexpert here can give us some more hints on this...

would be GREATLY appreciated !...

thanks in advance

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:09 pm

To give you real feedback, I would love to hear your mix. Doesn't have to be the whole thing, perhaps just a couple of fade points and parts of the mix that you think are washed out. Also, can you post pieces of the original tune?

Overall, the comments on this thread are great, in terms of using EQ4 and having a good outboard sound card. One really good point is that what you hear should be what you render, so I'm still unclear if that's what heppend. Is what you rendered different from what you heard during mixing? If so, then I'd look at having the exact mixing environment to listen to your CD mix...have it be just as loud as when you were monitoring and mixing, and try to stand in the same spot as when you were DJing. The reason I recommend this is that when you're in the mix, you may hear it differently, then when you sit back and listen to your mix...your perception is different when you're performing vs when you are actually listening.

One final comment - you might consider a limiter on your master chain to give it some overall punch and life. This may add some minor latency, but with L5's delay compensation, you shouldn't have any issues. Generally, a limiter like Elephant brings out a lot of life in a mix, especially when used with subtle settings.

Hope this helps.

am is are · Post by **am is are** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:56 pm

hello Nebulae

as pertains to the Limiter on your Master track --- is the limiter the last thing in your signal chain?? if not, could you clue us in on your Master track signal chain?

thanks!
peace

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:29 pm

I'd recommend the following master insert chain:

1. Ultility (if necessary to adjust input signal, since Live's master signal is pre-fader, and you might need to adjust the signal before it gets limited); Elephant has an input adjustment, so this is not usually necessary with a good limiter.

2. High quality transparent EQ, along the lines of PSP, Voxengo, or Waves. Again, if you mix well, this might not be necessary.

3. T-Racks compressor - in my experience, the BEST stereo imager. Just set the widener to about 2-3 and your mix just comes ALIVE!!

4. Elephant - the best mastering limiter out there.

My two cents - feel free to disagree (but you won't change my mind