Why do so many producers use logic/mac?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
summersc2002
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Why do so many producers use logic/mac?

Post by summersc2002 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:22 am

I was looking at the g5 specs today and they look pretty good, but not for the $3500 price tag? Ive got an emachines computer with 1gb ddr ram, 100 gb and a 150 hardrive , with a pentium 4 and it runs slow. It seems like everywhere I read alot of major producers use mac/logic. What makes them more preferred?

Chris
some kind of emachine computer/ pentium 4/ 2.53 ghz/ 100gb HD/ 150gb HD/ 1gb RM/ live 5/ Ni Komplete 2/ delta 1010/ triggerfinger/ keystation pro 88/nord lead 2 rack

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:49 am

mainly because Logic was one of the most full featured DAW's on the market at the time when computer music was starting to get big.

Also Logic can use Pro Tools TDM and it's DSP's so it was an awesome way for many people to have that kind of power, but more flexibility than Digi's PT software.

At present, Logic is probably the most popular DAW on the mac and if it's not, i'm sure it will be in no time thanks to Apples marketing and its Garageband influence, along with the fact that Apple has made Logic work a lot more closely and smoothly with their platform since they took over.

As for your system behaving slow, i think you may have other issues because generally PC's tend to be faster than mac's with most things and if you were going to go apple, i'd wait for next years harvest which was planted using Intel CPU's.

inis
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Post by inis » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:10 am

First of all, just to clarify, the top of the line G5 is $3000, unless you were talking about upgrading ram, memory, etc. The reason they are so expensive is because you are not paying for just power. The G5 has power, no doubt. The general rule is you can double the CPU speed and that is the PC equivalent. So, if you can imagine the speed of a dual 5.4 ghz, (over 10ghz of power) im sure you can see the reason for the expense. Besides that, you pay for stuff like OSX, and a general pretty design. Almost every apple product it looked at as expensive compared to other computers on the market, but you get what you pay for.

Apple, Logic, Pro-tools, OSX are industry standard. People can talk all day about how they think their PC and windows is superior for music, but the facts speak for themselves. Almost every major recording studio, mastering studio, or music production related degree/diploma/certification in the world is done on apple. Bottom line.

summersc2002
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Post by summersc2002 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:04 am

thanks for your replies. What do you think I can do to help my system? I already tweaked the xp setting from that "optimizing pc" post. But for example on my current set, it will go from 4% to 50% to 70% and then fluctuate. Obviously that isn't normal. My soundcard is a delta 1010. I have battery 2, kontakt 2, abysnth 3, and some audio clips running in my set. I dont have any other apps running. I have the abysth track frozen when it doesnt fuck up my volume. Any more suggestions on helping my cpu meter?

Thanks

Chris
some kind of emachine computer/ pentium 4/ 2.53 ghz/ 100gb HD/ 150gb HD/ 1gb RM/ live 5/ Ni Komplete 2/ delta 1010/ triggerfinger/ keystation pro 88/nord lead 2 rack

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:26 am

have you tried the asio4all drivers?
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:01 am

inis wrote:First of all, just to clarify, the top of the line G5 is $3000, unless you were talking about upgrading ram, memory, etc. The reason they are so expensive is because you are not paying for just power. The G5 has power, no doubt. The general rule is you can double the CPU speed and that is the PC equivalent. So, if you can imagine the speed of a dual 5.4 ghz, (over 10ghz of power) im sure you can see the reason for the expense. Besides that, you pay for stuff like OSX, and a general pretty design. Almost every apple product it looked at as expensive compared to other computers on the market, but you get what you pay for.

Apple, Logic, Pro-tools, OSX are industry standard. People can talk all day about how they think their PC and windows is superior for music, but the facts speak for themselves. Almost every major recording studio, mastering studio, or music production related degree/diploma/certification in the world is done on apple. Bottom line.
no offense but you are speaking out of your ass... the CPU speed thing is not a general rule and is bollocks. if you stop thinking like its 1995 you may realise that the PC platform (really x86 + microsoft) is so much better than apples that apple has decided to move to X86. Even Steve Jobs has said so himself and that's why someone at IBM probably has been left without a job.

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:22 am

summersc2002 wrote:thanks for your replies. What do you think I can do to help my system? I already tweaked the xp setting from that "optimizing pc" post. But for example on my current set, it will go from 4% to 50% to 70% and then fluctuate. Obviously that isn't normal. My soundcard is a delta 1010. I have battery 2, kontakt 2, abysnth 3, and some audio clips running in my set. I dont have any other apps running. I have the abysth track frozen when it doesnt fuck up my volume. Any more suggestions on helping my cpu meter?

Thanks

Chris
You are the example. It is a stereotype but Mac really works out of the box and pc wont. Since Live is my main application I use pc but it has to be set up, if you dont know how and/or dont have someone to do it for you, get a Mac. I see 90% PCs as horrible, I hate using anyone elses pc, might be 2.0 or better centrino but irritating, too slow for me.
The other reason of Macs popularity is that 10 even 5 years ago PCs were useless for audio/ video, many people are used to Macs and dont bother to change the platform. Despite such horrible performance, comparing to PC in the Live test, still lots of people using Mac, why ? because it is compensated by other things, so in the end it is worth to stay with what they know and can rely on. There is also some snobish factor, hype, but I dont really think it is that important in this community ( except for some macidiots)

3phase
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Post by 3phase » Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:50 am

Logic has the best integration of pro tools hardware.
That is one of the points...
Apple computers are generally prefered by many musicans because they run smoother... I never had a virus for example...
Logic was much earlier than steinberg able to do hard disk recording...
Working Harddiskrecording..not only the rough implemetation of it...
So people that was pros before 98 usually use logic..
Same applies to macs...people that was pros before 96-97 are mostly on mac...
97-98 was the time pc started to get fast...and before 95 a pc wasnt even able to connect a mouse.

subterFUSE
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Post by subterFUSE » Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:43 pm

The other reason of Macs popularity is that 10 even 5 years ago PCs were useless for audio/ video, many people are used to Macs and dont bother to change the platform. Despite such horrible performance, comparing to PC in the Live test, still lots of people using Mac, why ? because it is compensated by other things, so in the end it is worth to stay with what they know and can rely on. There is also some snobish factor, hype, but I dont really think it is that important in this community ( except for some macidiots)
This is a good explanation.... and quite true, I think.


Apple's became more popular during a time when the MS Windows OS was going through it's worst incarnations. Namely the Win 95, 98, ME years.

Apple noticed the trend of HORRIBLE Windows performance, and began to run their marketing heavily towards that end. And they were quite effective. They were also rather on-point.

When Apple switched to the Motorola CPU chips, and RISC technology.... they were certainly powerful machines. They were also using dual processors rather early.

These facts, combined with the stability and simplicity of their operating system... and the fact that no hacker would ever waste his time creating viruses for 2% of the world's computers.... made Apple attractive to enthusiasts who could afford the pricetag.

Of course, you can only make fun of the world's biggest software company for having crappy software for so long before they decide to improve it. And Windows XP is a VAST improvement.

Apple junkies will still trash it, just because it's Microsoft... but anyone who is being intellectually honest must admit.... Win XP is very stable. I will conceed that Windows does probably take a more savvy user to tweak it than Mac OS... but I don't see that as a problem... as I've been a computer expert since I was 10 years old.... using DOS codes by memory.

But Apple has it's own problems, just like anyone.

Apple is not a hardware company. They don't make anything they sell. They are therefore stuck at the mercy of their suppliers. For example.... they relied on Motorola for the PowerPC chips. Then it was IBM. A few years ago.... the biggest problem holding back the CPU industry became heat. We finally had got to a point where technology was so freakin' good at making tiny little transistors, and packing them so close together on silicon that we couldn't cool them anymore. It's like there are so few molecules of air between the transistors now, that it's nearly impossible to cool them. Intel has had this problem with the Pentium 4... and IBM has had it with the G5. Intel has found that dual-core CPUs are a good workaround. The Pentium M was also a great answer. (Basically an optimized Pentium 3 chip, arguably Intel's best chip ever) IBM has still not been able to overcome the heat issues with the G5. This is why you don't see a G5 PowerBook. And you will NEVER see it, either.

Apple has been waiting and waiting on IBM to deliver.... but they just couldn't. In the meantime, the PC industry has been passing by Apple in the hardware performance categories. Anyone who denies this is simply delusional.

So Steve Jobs has been biting his fingernails, and probably shitting his pants.... waiting for IBM. But at some point, you just have to give up and change or else fall behind forever. What else can you do? You've saved your company from extinction by running television ads saying that Macs are faster, more powerful, and more stable. But now, Win XP is out.... and PCs are starting to blow your performance numbers out of the water. Sure, you have a loyal fan base of people who have been brainwashed by your marketing for a few years... and they still love you.... but how long can you REALLY go without a seriously new technology in your computers before that loyalty wears off? Come on IBM... don't let us down. We're holding our breath here.... Good thing we got these iPod things, because without those sales... we'd be lost.

Get my drift? :lol:

Apparently, Jobs is done waiting. So.... we're soon going to see Apple computers with Intel processors.




In my opinion, now is not the time to be buying an Apple computer at all. They are all obsolete... yet still more expensive than a stronger PC alternative.

Furthermore, with the new Intel Macs around the corner.... it just doesn't make any sense to waste your money now. I would suggest that patience here will reward you. Wait to see how the new Intel gear looks.

Of course, I wouldn't suggest buying the first generation of anything.




Obviously, hardware performance is not the only consideration. But I feel the performance gap today between PC and Mac is so large, that it should not be ignored.

gregmcnichol
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Post by gregmcnichol » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:19 pm

MACS OWN YOU!!

:-D

subterFUSE
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Post by subterFUSE » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:29 pm

:wink:

icedsushi
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Post by icedsushi » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:31 pm

Yeah and Microsoft has the whole world by the balls so what's the difference?

There's not many choices out there, but there are choices. Ok, time for me to make some music.

summersc2002
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Post by summersc2002 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:11 pm

Thanks for all the feedback, I think I'll just stick with pc for now. I think I might just buy a bad ass synth instead and tough it out on my pc. Maybe get 2gb of ram instead of having 1. In the long run, I really wouldn't want to learn a new interface and operating system right now. I should focus on making music instead of where its coming from. Im sure there are people making music on shittier computer than mine.

Chris
some kind of emachine computer/ pentium 4/ 2.53 ghz/ 100gb HD/ 150gb HD/ 1gb RM/ live 5/ Ni Komplete 2/ delta 1010/ triggerfinger/ keystation pro 88/nord lead 2 rack

Michael-SW
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Post by Michael-SW » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:35 pm

You are not running some sort of Power Saving scheme on you computer, are you? Settings->Power Profiles. Switch to "Always On".

Otherwise, you could just try to do a clean install.

Your 2.5 P4 isn't the hottest CPU around, but it should be able to handle plenty. Try Adam Jay's performance test (search the forum) and benchmark your result against other people.

summersc2002
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Post by summersc2002 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:54 pm

a clean install of live or windows?
some kind of emachine computer/ pentium 4/ 2.53 ghz/ 100gb HD/ 150gb HD/ 1gb RM/ live 5/ Ni Komplete 2/ delta 1010/ triggerfinger/ keystation pro 88/nord lead 2 rack

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