Ableton Forum

I've used Macs and PCs professionally for 13 years. Now it's Macs only (except for my mountain biking GPS software, which is PC only!). I use Live, Peak, Motion, Cinema 4D, Photoshop, Illustrator, Arkaos VJ, Mimic, Poser, Flash, etc on a daily basis. The only crash I've had on a G5/10.4.2 has been trying out a freeware plug-in in Live, which I won't do again!

I agree that Macs are more expensive and slower than comparable PCs. But Macs have a special, intangible quality that most PC users cannot comprehend. I for one am willing to pay for that quality, however illogical it seems to PC users.

And Apple's own software (Logic, FCP, Motion, Shake, etc) are tightly integrated into OSX and Macs in a way that Microsoft could only do if they did more than just supply software. In my opinion, that's why the Mac/Logic combination dominates. As the speed of Macintels comes on board and the need for external processing hardware & DSP cards disappears, the Mac/Logic combination will grow even stronger, IMO.

But I say live and let live. Whatever works for you, use it.

I personally think the Macintels are gonna rock...

They use Logic because they have been using it for years. When the user of logic is a power user after years of learning you really have to see one of these guys in operation to understand why for many a switch is not an option. I used to be a lOgic user but was far from a power user.

Many logic users still use Logic 5 on a pC which was one of the best version of logic imo. Fast, and cpu friendly.

As a "Power User" of Macs since 1989, I would like to add that Logic and Pro-Tools are not the only Music Platforms used on Mac. I happen to be a Digital Performer User and use LIVE rewired into DP. DP also works seamlessly as a front end to Pro-Tools.

As far as Mac vs. PC, I really don't care what anyone uses. Whatever works for you. I just happen to LOVE my Macs!

sweetjesus wrote:
On a hardware level, there is absolutely nothing Apple will have over and above anyone else when the new Apple x86 machines come out, except some DRM which allows OSXi to run on it, and I really doubt Intel is going to create some fancy CPU or hardware specifically for Apple. If I was Intel, I sure as hell wouldn't screw my real customers (Dell, IBM, Toshiba, HP Compaq) for some puny rake such as Apple.

You did get one thing right though, there's more to the switch, but you got the context wrong. Apple are clearly a manufacturer of mass consumer products now that they have the iPod and intel supplies more than desktop CPU's, it provides processors for embedded devices (like the iPod) and processors for PDA's and mobile phones and this ties in with Apples current profitable ventures.

I use macs, but I agree with you that the CPU thing is silly. Logic ran faster on PC's before the buyout. Apple switched to Intell for two reasons, speed and the fact that Intel can actually deliver the chips. The dual 2.7 had a loooong waiting list for some people when it came out.

Intel did in fact state that they would be doing things with Apple and OSX that windows PC's wouldn't see. Microsoft is too huge to reinvent it's OS for mild speed improvevmnts, Apple will actually work with Intel.

The other thing to remember is that gamers, audio, and video engineers etc. are only a small portion of the PC market. Most people don't care about speed the way we do.

Also considering I used a 400mhz mac for music for years, I'm actually able to write complete songs on the 1.5Ghz powerbook I just bought. I would rather just stick with OSX PPC for a year or so, then switch for a chip to PC, deal with PC issues, and then rush back to mac when the transition is stable.

I think you're dead wrong about the OS though, XP had major issues every time we installed drivers on it, OSX simply doesn't have that problem. XP has a snappier GUI, but that's about it IMO. My take is it's going to make it impossible to state that windows is better in any way, except price.

Well, reaktor,absynth, and battery seem to like to eat up my cpu. I already was streaming from disk in kontakt. But what am I going to do? Right now all I have are ni plugins. I just thought my comp should be faster since I put another hardrive and a gig of ram in it. I guess Ill put another gig of ram in and see what it does. I have norton and adware, so I dont think I have any viruses or spyware. Oh well. Thanks for all your help everyone on the mac issue and pc performance issue.

Chris

you can buy a mac now, it's about the best around. it's not just a power or music related thing. ZTo me it's my all around digital being! Someone mentioned the native softs... well iLife 05' is the best around. Sure not pro stuff, but enough to make my life easier. I'd go for a new PB now if I had the dough, since MacIntel rev B is at least a year away.

summersc2002 wrote: I guess Ill put another gig of ram in and see what it does. I have norton and adware, so I dont think I have any viruses or spyware.

Chris, make sure that anything like norton and adware, or any other application that runs in the background is turned off. Go ahead and turn off the internet, basically go into your TCP/Ip settings and make a blank connection, or whatever else you have to do on a PC to make sure the internet isn't clogging up any CPU...
This could be your problem, I seem to remember norton running some sort of background process that was supposedly not eating any CPU, but that's probably bullshit.

summersc2002 wrote:thanks for your replies. What do you think I can do to help my system? I already tweaked the xp setting from that "optimizing pc" post. But for example on my current set, it will go from 4% to 50% to 70% and then fluctuate. Obviously that isn't normal. My soundcard is a delta 1010. I have battery 2, kontakt 2, abysnth 3, and some audio clips running in my set. I dont have any other apps running. I have the abysth track frozen when it doesnt fuck up my volume. Any more suggestions on helping my cpu meter?

Thanks

Chris

The first thing that comes to mind is a crappy chipset or hardware combination. What kind of guts are in your PC. You don't have a VIA chipset do you? Because they totally suck IME, they are completely unusable.

I tried the internet thing and norton and it didn't do much. How do I find out my chipset/hardware info? Is it under system in control panel?What does your average cet idle at in terms of cpu. Right now, I have battery 2, 2 pro 53's , a frozen reaktor, and kontakt, and some clips,and my set idles at 9%, it rises to 50%.

Chris

In my opinion, working well within the capabilities of your system results in a crash-free, stable environment, rather than slamming it with as much as you can, just to find out it doesn't work, and then jumping through hoops trying to tweak this or freeze that.

If I can't run soft synths and effects, I don't. It's that simple. And the ones I do use I test before I buy. And I render as many tracks as possible before playing live.

My set has 82 tracks, sometimes with as many as 60 playing at once. The CPU never exceeds 40%, except when cross-fading one track into the next.

And when the Macintels ship, then I'll push it a bit harder.

summersc2002 wrote:I tried the internet thing and norton and it didn't do much. How do I find out my chipset/hardware info? Is it under system in control panel?What does your average cet idle at in terms of cpu. Right now, I have battery 2, 2 pro 53's , a frozen reaktor, and kontakt, and some clips,and my set idles at 9%, it rises to 50%.

Chris

What you mean, "tried internet thing and norton" it is obvious you have outdated pc, too little RAM and want to run too many things.( and have Norton on top of it) Whatever you meant "tried" it is clear you dont know too well what you talking/ doing- it is clearly not your thing. Musician or producer do not have to be too techy, they have better option - getting Mac.

Machinesworking wrote:

summersc2002 wrote: I guess Ill put another gig of ram in and see what it does. I have norton and adware, so I dont think I have any viruses or spyware.

Chris, make sure that anything like norton and adware, or any other application that runs in the background is turned off. Go ahead and turn off the internet, basically go into your TCP/Ip settings and make a blank connection, or whatever else you have to do on a PC to make sure the internet isn't clogging up any CPU...
This could be your problem, I seem to remember norton running some sort of background process that was supposedly not eating any CPU, but that's probably bullshit.

Chris,
I agree with the others, you have to turn off any background programs AND useless XP services (check out www.blackviper.com for good info on XP services). Norton AV is too heavy IMO as well. But NI plugs tend to use a lot of juice too.


As far as the ongoing Mac/PC questions go: I have used both systems, but I am primarily a PC user. I think both systems work, and you just go with what you are used to.

Personally, I think it is too late for me to make a change in my own setup. I liked the design of the g4 Powerbook (er, the actual object) and yes it did seem to be pretty stable – but I have to say it felt slower than my old AMD Athlon 2600, both with 1gig of Ram. After being used to XP, I found the Mac OS (X) to be really clunky and not as intuitive as Mac lovers claim – but that’s probably because I am so used to Windoze. Plus I can tweak XP, whereas I couldn’t figure out how to maximise OS x – Mac user can now say: “ahhh you see! That’s just it, you don’t neeed to tweak it, because it is already excellent”…………)……………and on and on…………….

Ableton Live rocks on both systems AFAICS.

summersc2002 wrote:I tried the internet thing and norton and it didn't do much. How do I find out my chipset/hardware info? Is it under system in control panel?What does your average cet idle at in terms of cpu. Right now, I have battery 2, 2 pro 53's , a frozen reaktor, and kontakt, and some clips,and my set idles at 9%, it rises to 50%.

Chris

You can ususally tell if you look in device manager. Or take the box apart and look for a model on the board. I can see in your sig you have some kind of emachine. They are not known for quality, and that is your problem, you can tweak that thing all day and unfortunately it will probably never cut the mustard. That is the trick to having a good pc daw, buying, or better yet, building a machine with all top notch hardware that is known to be compatible with audio. Those $300 machines on sale at Office Max just don't cut it.

A friend of mine had a P4 system with a VIA chip and it was totaly crap, it had a spiky cpu meter like you describe. He changed out the motherboard with an Intel chip board and now it works perfectly.

summersc2002 wrote:I tried the internet thing and norton and it didn't do much. How do I find out my chipset/hardware info? Is it under system in control panel?What does your average cet idle at in terms of cpu. Right now, I have battery 2, 2 pro 53's , a frozen reaktor, and kontakt, and some clips,and my set idles at 9%, it rises to 50%.

Chris

Fire up Quake 4 and do some video editing while you're at it!

hambone1 wrote: I tried the internet thing and
Fire up Quake 4 and do some video editing while you're at it!

LOL,

Well I looked in device manager, and it says intel everywhere in there, so Im assuming I have intel. I guess I expected too much out of my computer.

[quote="rikhyray

What you mean, "tried internet thing and norton" it is obvious you have outdated pc, too little RAM and want to run too many things.( and have Norton on top of it) Whatever you meant "tried" it is clear you dont know too well what you talking/ doing- it is clearly not your thing. Musician or producer do not have to be too techy, they have better option - getting Mac.[/quote]

Obviously I dont know shit about computers or I wouldn't be asking everyone for help.



How much do you think I could build a bad ass computer for? What kinds of specialty components should I look for. I know I need lots of ram, a fast hard drive speed, high quality soundcard. Help me with the rest guys, I need a better pc.

Chris