Intellectual property vs.intellectualy challanged

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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rikhyray
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Intellectual property vs.intellectualy challanged

Post by rikhyray » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:09 pm

it is the most unfortunate that lots of people do not understand the basics about the property. Someone wrote about "former cracker" that he didnt steal anyone`s copy. Yes he did, the"00111011001001001" of Live are the property of Ableton untill licensed, there is no difference to stealing actual physical boxed copy. Endorsing, helping people to use files done with cracks, telling where to DL cracks etc, etc is very silly. If the company dont do well and they close, unfortunately the fate of most, even innovative small companies, even crack users will be left in dry.So even a crack user do against own interests, propagating illegal ways. I am not judging anyone for using legal or illegal copies of anything, but endorsing that on the compnies websites is really too much.
Now for intellectually challanged people of common sense may skip it:
creating software is not less time consuming and expensive then making a car, table or a shoe. It involves time and group of qualified people who have to be paid. They are paid from the profits and these come from licensed software. If the sold licences dont cover the expenses a company goes bankrupt, end of the story. Usually it take some time. While most of people would see it clearly in case of stolen table, Rolex or candy they fail to grasp that it is just the same. Strictly from legal point of view writting where to get cracks or how to make files work after geting legit copy is encouraging the crime> crime in itself.
I am not some fanatic bashing cracked software users, dont want to judge anyone for anything. Personally find it weird, as a musician have my fans and friends in all kind of people that includes real criminals, gangsters etc. Even those have their code of ethic and ,mostly, are not stupid. So whatever call it- old school stupid, silly or politically correct "intellectually challanged" that endorsing or cracks should not be tolerated here, in everyones interests.

louZ
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Post by louZ » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:58 pm

First of all, the kid in the other thread did buy the software eventually and therefore does support Ableton.

Second of all, there is a difference between using a crack and stealing someone's physical copy. In the first case you are stealing from the company, because you might otherwise have payed for a copy. The company employees are not directly affected by this. They'll only notice it if the company goes bankrupt.
In the second case you are stealing from the company and from the individual owner of the copy. The indivual owner will most likely feel violated.

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:47 pm

The guy spent some time and effort, and started a thread

He said that he used to do silly things, but he is better now, and he said that he was very pleased with his purchase. He asked how to treat his once illegal, now legal files. He got a reply from friendly people - the point for them maybe that he HAS payed for his software, albeit too late.

You said, to sum up, that he was a moron for telling us about it. Shame on him, eh?

Then you spent some time and effort, and started (another) thread
Going on and on.... Can't blame you tough, since people told you to let it go - not because they're intellectually challenged, but because they're rational human beings, who usually don't get hot and bothered on the internet - rule number one, by the way...

Then I took the time to post on that thread. With these words:

I can't for the life of me understand how you can say he endorses warez? He bought the damned software!!! -thus breaking rule number one.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:53 pm

yes I did pay for it (assuming it's me you're talking about)

to me it's like going out for pizza and either paying before you eat it or eating it and then saying "that was good enough to pay for" and then doing so. either way it's been paid for so calm down. I even got operator (the coke and salad bar) with my meal. all paid for.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:56 pm

I used to tape music off the radio when I was younger. Compilation tapes of my favourite pop tunes, in fact all my friends did this.

later on we would buy the tracks we really liked.

radio play = demo
taped copy = warez
bought copy = bought copy


if someone had told me I was stealing the music by taping it off the radio I would have been a bit perplexed. Ah yes, thats right

Image

That was in 1978, is it dead yet?

I'm not saying that warez is right, I am saying 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'
I bet that even the boys at Ableton have possesed a dodgy bit of software in their time, everyone I know sure has!

the ar
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Post by the ar » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:06 pm

Sometimes this seems the 'little and silly kindergarten forum', rather than the Ableton one.
Anyway the guy used to be a moron, but he then realized he was one and bought a legit copy of Live.
That's all.
And who fucking cares in the first place.

dazzer
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Post by dazzer » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:41 pm

Respect to Angstrom on posting the old "home taping" logo...makes me feel quite nostalgic :)

And respect to the posters who don''t have to start calling people "fucking retards" or "morons" - easy to be a hard-man on the Net isn't it?

To the dudes getting all worked up, it aint where you're from it's where you're at, the guy now owns Live, end of story.

You know what? I bet the Abes themselves wouldn't get as worked up by all this as some of the forum members do, in fact I'm sure they'd be deighted about another sale.

I agree with what Emisarry saidin the other thread, most people I know look at me like I'm a complete wanker when I tell them I paid for software...

the ar
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Post by the ar » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:13 pm

I wasn't being a 'hard man', I'm just tired of this sterile discussion that is invading the forum.
And since I've always been a registered user of software I frequently use, I call 'moron' who downloads warez instead of supporting who made it.
That's all.

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:20 pm

dazzer wrote:I agree with what Emisarry saidin the other thread, most people I know look at me like I'm a complete wanker when I tell them I paid for software...
Every time someone does that to me I feel all warm inside. It's like somehow after all the bad karma attributed with using illegal software I am have become a zealot of the of "I pay for my software, I deserve it, and thus I work to be proficient with it."

I have considered the fact, however, that I am one very big, scruffy mama's boy.

The fact of the matter is: anytime I use software that I don't own I tell myself: your pushing it dude, an anvil is gonna fall on your head.

it reminds me of a line from a poem I wrote years back:

"She told me things
I would not hear them
Concrete slabs fell on my Kittens
Cancer Belched the Bile
that slowly dribbled out my anus"

We always use things that do not belong to us, public space, alley ways for urinals, back-glances of "women in their summer dresses" instead of your girlfried (or other)) for lite entertainment, etc. But Once you start taking shit for granted your fucked. If you don't pay your dues, and show gratitude or love for the things you use, it will only be around long enough to make you hurt more, once it's gone.

forge
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Post by forge » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:22 pm

LOFA wrote:[

it reminds me of a line from a poem I wrote years back:

"She told me things
I would not hear them
Concrete slabs fell on my Kittens
Cancer Belched the Bile
that slowly dribbled out my anus"
.
8O :?

erm...that's a somewhat educational post there Lofa! :lol:

Obineg
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Post by Obineg » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:37 pm

noone is as intelectually challanged as self appointed warez police forum posters . . .

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:23 am

Johnis i believe you didnt do that on purpose but the title of your thread and it`s content does not fit an official webpage of any company, answering your question was nothing else then instructions how to make illegit ( you did that stuff with illegal copy) working. It is not about ethics of using warez, I am not a god, judge or police, neither am I interested to judge anyones deeds. It is unconsiderate and unfair to do it on their website, that`s all. Enjoy life and Live and sorry if I or anyone else upset you unjustly.

muthafunka
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Post by muthafunka » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:51 am

With all due respect, give the guy a break! Sure using cracks is wrong but the fact is the dude put his money where his mouth is, and for whatever reason went from 0 to 1, made a decision to go from doing the wrong thing to the right thing, and that is a step in the right direction, to which I raise my hat. His only 'mistake' so far seems to have been in bellying up to the bar and admitting what he did here, only to be slapped down down by the forum police. Remember too that doing something the first time is always the hardest, so he's more likely to buy rather than 'acquire' other software again in the future, especially after experiencing the tangible benefits ie stability, support etc as well as the intangible ie feeling good about himself, his karma and his more focused creativity. And who knows, once he starts telling friends/people where he got the crack that it was actually a good thing and a very positive experience to pay for software and that the support etc on the forum is all worth it, who knows, they might buy it too. Good habits rub off on people too, as well as bad.
Don't demonize the guy for the right thing he did, or even the wrong, unless you've never stolen anything, never avoided paying for something or never broken any laws yourself, and even then, what's to be gained in doing so other than making yourself feel good for being oh-so-right? We all love Live but it's just another commodity, and like it or not, in this day and age you have a choice to pay for it or not, no matter what the right or wrong of it is, and he chose to change his behaviour for the better, while some people just sat there and barked at him like dogs.
Sorry for the rant guys/girls, just feel like the world needs as much compassion as it can get these day and that needs to start at home ie here. :D

edit: hey rikhyray, you posted again while I was writing this but I'll leave it anyway 'cos it's worth saying. To be honest when I first read the guy's post it didn't even occur to me that he might be fishing for crack info....guess I ain't got the suspicious nature Holmes!

Peace

computo
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Post by computo » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:21 am

Johnisfaster wrote:yes I did pay for it (assuming it's me you're talking about)

to me it's like going out for pizza and either paying before you eat it or eating it and then saying "that was good enough to pay for" and then doing so. either way it's been paid for so calm down. I even got operator (the coke and salad bar) with my meal. all paid for.
I think most software companies, as well as music companies would probably agree.

you guys are all angst-ridden about the topic, but for this guy and COUNTLESS others, getting the program free only drove the desire to own the program. If it had sucked, then they wouldnt have gotten it, but it didnt suck.

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:15 am

forge wrote:
LOFA wrote:[

it reminds me of a line from a poem I wrote years back:

"She told me things
I would not hear them
Concrete slabs fell on my Kittens
Cancer Belched the Bile
that slowly dribbled out my anus"
.
8O :?

erm...that's a somewhat educational post there Lofa! :lol:
:D Thanks... I knew I had to drop some prose on y'all one day (I feel like a miscevious 5 year old right now... :oops: )

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