How to Start ? [An Arrangement Question]
How to Start ? [An Arrangement Question]
Greetings,
I've just purchased Ableton Live 5 about a month ago, and think it is great!
In the past I use to arrange all my music with the mouse and cut & paste features through Cubase SX. I found I could get great, accurate results with my arrangements this way, although songs would take me 3 months at a time to complete!
I'm finding with Ableton Live, eventhough the live element is great, I'm sometimes stuck with how to start a song? Do most start one line at a time layering each instrument? Or is creating complete sections such as Intro, Verse, Bridge the best way?
I'm just wondering how the pro's do it, and is it easier said than done, is this just simply a question of practice or trial & error?
Thanks!
r.e
I've just purchased Ableton Live 5 about a month ago, and think it is great!
In the past I use to arrange all my music with the mouse and cut & paste features through Cubase SX. I found I could get great, accurate results with my arrangements this way, although songs would take me 3 months at a time to complete!
I'm finding with Ableton Live, eventhough the live element is great, I'm sometimes stuck with how to start a song? Do most start one line at a time layering each instrument? Or is creating complete sections such as Intro, Verse, Bridge the best way?
I'm just wondering how the pro's do it, and is it easier said than done, is this just simply a question of practice or trial & error?
Thanks!
r.e
def not a 'pro' here but...
You're missing the most liberating/inspirational part of Live. Start your project in session view! Throw some crazy samples into the clips, record stuff into clips. Then use follow actions to get them to skip around. i.e.-mish-mash Then, when you get some rudimentary groove going, record it! Then switch to arrange view and embellish it and refine to your heart's content by layering-in diffedrent instruments, vocals, whatever. After I started working like that, I never went back to my linear-mode sequencer again.
You're missing the most liberating/inspirational part of Live. Start your project in session view! Throw some crazy samples into the clips, record stuff into clips. Then use follow actions to get them to skip around. i.e.-mish-mash Then, when you get some rudimentary groove going, record it! Then switch to arrange view and embellish it and refine to your heart's content by layering-in diffedrent instruments, vocals, whatever. After I started working like that, I never went back to my linear-mode sequencer again.
9.0.4 Suite-Samsung Chronos 7 laptop(17")-12GB RAM-Samsung 840 series SSD(250GB)-iPad2-Maschine-TouchAble-SaffirePro24-Saffire6USB-Komplete Audio 6-Axiom25-PCR300-Nocturn-LaunchPad-QuNeo-QuNexus
miTunes
miTunes
That is about what I do as well. That is the great thing about Live.Anubis wrote:def not a 'pro' here but...
You're missing the most liberating/inspirational part of Live. Start your project in session view! Throw some crazy samples into the clips, record stuff into clips. Then use follow actions to get them to skip around. i.e.-mish-mash Then, when you get some rudimentary groove going, record it! Then switch to arrange view and embellish it and refine to your heart's content by layering-in diffedrent instruments, vocals, whatever. After I started working like that, I never went back to my linear-mode sequencer again.
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.
I find that in creating songs from scratch, I still work with the linear arrange window. I guess I still think old school. So basically, I go into arrange, and I just loop beats, midi, etc. I start with a drum and a synth line, and add from there.
For performances, I then cut up my linear arragements into chunks and stick them in the session and just go hog wild with follow actions, midi triggers, controllers, you name it.
For performances, I then cut up my linear arragements into chunks and stick them in the session and just go hog wild with follow actions, midi triggers, controllers, you name it.
Wow! Guys thanks for the response!
The responses have been great thanks so much!
Yes, I did read a little bit about that "Follow" feature and it does intrigue me... I suppose so because it is one step closer to artificial intelligence in music!
So I suppose moving into this manner --- into the realm of Ableton Live, that one really needs to become an expert in pattern making & programming and not linear arrangement.
I'm wondering are there any books out there that talk more about this concept of pattern programming and what the theory behind it is?
For the most part in using Reason 2.5, there is a wonderful feature called "Alter Pattern" or "Randomize Pattern" both are truly valuable tools to me, allowing myself to create building blocks upon building blocks of musical patterns/clips.
Does anyone else find the "randomization" feature in computers fascinating or mysterious?
Just a thought...
Thanks again!
r.e
Yes, I did read a little bit about that "Follow" feature and it does intrigue me... I suppose so because it is one step closer to artificial intelligence in music!
So I suppose moving into this manner --- into the realm of Ableton Live, that one really needs to become an expert in pattern making & programming and not linear arrangement.
I'm wondering are there any books out there that talk more about this concept of pattern programming and what the theory behind it is?
For the most part in using Reason 2.5, there is a wonderful feature called "Alter Pattern" or "Randomize Pattern" both are truly valuable tools to me, allowing myself to create building blocks upon building blocks of musical patterns/clips.
Does anyone else find the "randomization" feature in computers fascinating or mysterious?
Just a thought...
Thanks again!
r.e
I don't like randomization at all, but that's mostly because of the way I work:
I usually program old-skool style, for instance when making beats. Then I copy the beat to the slot beneath it in session view, and tweak it, then copy again, tweak again until I have 15-20 different really useful loops. Same thing with synths. The thing is that I do it so fast that I don't *think* too much about the programming, but rather *feel* them, you know? Way better, and I get a feeling of less randomness, even though the process is very similar to "randomize+undo" until you've got something useful.
I usually program old-skool style, for instance when making beats. Then I copy the beat to the slot beneath it in session view, and tweak it, then copy again, tweak again until I have 15-20 different really useful loops. Same thing with synths. The thing is that I do it so fast that I don't *think* too much about the programming, but rather *feel* them, you know? Way better, and I get a feeling of less randomness, even though the process is very similar to "randomize+undo" until you've got something useful.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.
-
- Posts: 3604
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:57 pm
- Location: The south east suburbs of Malmö, Sweden.
Re: Wow! Guys thanks for the response!
If your into generative/random (is that a word?) music you should check out the Clavia nord Modular community and maybe even Reaktor.Zealy707 wrote:I suppose so because it is one step closer to artificial intelligence in music!
...
I'm wondering are there any books out there that talk more about this concept of pattern programming and what the theory behind it is?
Here's an interesting piece:
http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~clark/nordmod ... thmic.html
Cheers,
Mikael
I use session as my scratchpad of ideas and riffs, with scenes of harmonic parts I can can get a rough idea of what works that way.
I then slap a load of stuff over to arrangement and start carving it down, editing individual drum hits to make the section sound fluid, editing notes and adding vamps.
I tend to have an overall Idea of what shape the song should have before I start - with things I think of as 'surprises' whether they are key changes, instrumentation changes or audio effect. Also I think about the tensioning of the track which is pretty important in a structure.
That's pretty much how I do it, carve up chunks like sculpture then join them together with audio trickery.
I only use follow actions while jamming a riff out on top of, not for arrangements. Algo stuff is fine for ambient, experimental or lift music but I prefer the human touch to pass a message through the music.
I then slap a load of stuff over to arrangement and start carving it down, editing individual drum hits to make the section sound fluid, editing notes and adding vamps.
I tend to have an overall Idea of what shape the song should have before I start - with things I think of as 'surprises' whether they are key changes, instrumentation changes or audio effect. Also I think about the tensioning of the track which is pretty important in a structure.
That's pretty much how I do it, carve up chunks like sculpture then join them together with audio trickery.
I only use follow actions while jamming a riff out on top of, not for arrangements. Algo stuff is fine for ambient, experimental or lift music but I prefer the human touch to pass a message through the music.
I find that when I am working in the "old" linear paradigm, I tend to repeat many elements anyway, so it's all copy and paste (unless your application lets you set the number of repetitions of a clip). In Live it is so much easier to identify those repeating elements right away and make clips out of them. The ways of combining clips are endless. You can also try combinations you didn't think would work, but sometimes they just do.
I generally start with some ideas in the session view, try to construct meaningful scenes out of them (intro, verse, chorus, bridge etc.) and then "play" Live to record it all in the arrangement.
I generally start with some ideas in the session view, try to construct meaningful scenes out of them (intro, verse, chorus, bridge etc.) and then "play" Live to record it all in the arrangement.