tempo/ beat matching between ableton and vinyl/cdj

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
zizack
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Post by zizack » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:29 am

so using Ableton, you can beatmatch into a live song being played on a tunrtable...you can assign the master tempo to a MIDI fader and ride the pitch as you would on a turntable?

JohnDP
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Post by JohnDP » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:10 am

yes, assign a fader to the tempo and you put 130 as a min value and 120 as a max value. this way the fader acts like a pitch fader.

Enjoy

lerky
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Post by lerky » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:26 am

JohnDP wrote:yes, assign a fader to the tempo and you put 130 as a min value and 120 as a max value. this way the fader acts like a pitch fader.

Enjoy
how can your minimum tempo be more than your max tempo?
set the minimum tempo to 109.60 and max to 135 (or adjust that gap to suit your music, and the pitch with be adjusted in increments of .20

tonyb
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Post by tonyb » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:08 pm

there used be a product made by redsound called voyager that listens to the audio and works out the tempo which can then be used to control any midi tempo.It uses the same engines the cycloops product which seem to be quite popular (r hawtin d tenaglia ETC) .I bought the smaller version which had mixed results the last time i tried to use it linking a yamaha rs7000 to my technics.I would probably put this down to my inexperience.

supster
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Post by supster » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:49 pm

Krugger wrote:yeah well, I can always shout, tap my foot, hit the roof etc etc and not use my cd players with ableton until ableton implements something my way

i think customers should demand that a product be well designed, well thought out to meet basic needs, and works basically well right out of the box.

one of the mixed blessings of this software is that you *can* do a lot of workaround for things. its better than not being about to do something at all.

unfortunately this is looked at as an excuse by those who think ableton can do no wrong, and possibly an easy way for ableton to justify pushing a release schedule thats too fast for a company htats too small with not enough employess or resources or maybe not enough experience to to some of the things they do.

why shouldnt the nudge function - or some innovative total solution to mixing outside DJ sources with Live - be thouroghly worked out, TESTED, and debugged so it works without a big hassle like its an afterthought or not even considered??

why *should* you have to do a workaround for a basic DJ function that thousands of people are going to want to do on a routine basis ...

... that any other company that wanted to cater to the DJ market would have worked with DJs to figure out a really great way of making it possible that made everyone happy and want to use it and tell all thier friends how great it is so they buy it??

answer that. why have so many features in Live become this way: broken, half assed, or not even considered?
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mike holiday
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Post by mike holiday » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:04 pm

how can your minimum tempo be more than your max tempo?
set the minimum tempo to 109.60 and max to 135 (or adjust that gap to suit your music, and the pitch with be adjusted in increments of .20[/quote]

you need to have the min more then the max to make the fader work upside down

so ablton speeds up as you lower the tempo value like on a 1200

it should just work in tenths

I fear that the global nudge isn't desired enuff as there arn't enuff dj's left that actually mix the shit out of their sources!!

i cant use nudge at a clip level as this will throw everything inside ableton out of sync

subterFUSE
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Post by subterFUSE » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:36 pm

You don't need a global nudge.


Click on the Tempo, then use the Up/Down arrows. Click up then down, it's the same as giving a turntable platter a nudge forward by hand... except without the audible pitch bend noise.


I used Ableton with a friend a few weeks ago. He played Vinyl & CD, and I used Ableton... and we mixed one for one. I never skipped a beat. It was easy.

Just use Metronome in the headphones to match by, Assign a Midi Slider to Pitch... then use the arrow trick for fine tuning as needed.

(See my post earlier in this thread for more detail)

engineroom
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Post by engineroom » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:45 pm

the best way i have found to do this involves hardware, but is OH SO like using a turntable or CD deck

MIDI interface
Roland MC-909 or MC-307

the pitch slider and +/- buttons work REALLY well, plus there is a BPM readout, so basically you just send clock into Live and it syncs to the BPM you have tapped- but then you can adjust it just like you were mixing from a CD or record.

lerky
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Post by lerky » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:32 am

I have a mc307, can you give me a more detailed description on how to do this?

engineroom
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Post by engineroom » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:36 am

i don't have my 307 anymore, but basically as I recall if you are sending MIDI on the right channel, and Live is receiving it properly, you set live to external sync, and it will respond to the Midi Clock the 307 is sending (which is controlled by the pitch slider, the +/- buttons, and the tap tempo button) and also will respond to the transport controls

on the 909 i literally plugged it in and it worked

blastique
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Post by blastique » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:51 am

Hi engineroom,

I too have a mc307 that I have tried using as the midi clock master, with live slaving to it. The turntable emulation and nudge buttons work great, however, does anybody find that the sound coming out of ableton is altered somehow? i.e. my pitch-bended, not warped, tracks, sound almost like they've gone through beat warping (with the slight warbling)?

I remember reading a post some time back about how live generally sounds a bit funny when slaving to external midi.
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lerky
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Post by lerky » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:09 am

its ok, worked it out
this works much better than the faderfox

lerky
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Post by lerky » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:22 am

i tested warped tracks, on repitch and can honestly hear no audible difference between external midi sync and abletons :D

engineroom
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Post by engineroom » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:24 am

lerky wrote:i tested warped tracks, on repitch and can honestly hear no audible difference between external midi sync and abletons :D
yes i have never noticed a difference

maybe that 307 has a funky clock

that said, if roland (or someone) would just sell the transport and pitch part of the 909 by itself i would buy several- right now i keep my MC-909 (a $1000+ box) just for controlling Live

blastique
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Post by blastique » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:47 am

I guess it's fixed with live 5 then. I think it had to do with the way ableton followed the clock (update intervals?) Not sure as I haven't tried it with 5 yet.

I just checked in Live 4.1.4 again and it's glaringly obvious.
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