Okay..ReWired Reason into Live, monitoring on, NO SOUND.

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Okay..ReWired Reason into Live, monitoring on, NO SOUND.

Post by Guest » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:21 pm

Why am I not hearing anything even with the monitoring on?

tribalogical
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Post by tribalogical » Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:15 pm

try the track routing in Live...?

it's nicely spelled out how-to in the manualllll, uh-huh...

once you get your head around it, it's dog-easy...


tlc

Chet
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:32 pm

Post by Chet » Fri Mar 14, 2003 5:31 pm

Yeah, I was sorta thrown by the fact that you have to turn on the MENU in Audio and THEN turn on the little icon. See, if you turn on a program-wide menu (monitoring, in this case), it seems silly to have to turn each track on manually as well. And actually, it isn't in the Manual...but thanks for playing.

Meanwhile, trying to figure out how to get a Mic input nearly put me in fits because, once again, there was a menu option where the audio input is set to OFF by default. Why? Hell, how am I supposed to know that there IS a menu? Of course, by now I know that if I can't find it, it's because Ableton has gone the extra mile in user friendliness and set the default to OFF.

Did these guys (Ableton) used to work for Microsoft or something?

Alex
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Post by Alex » Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:16 pm

Hi chet,

sorry but I cannot much agree to your posting.
All the things you wrote about are written down in the manual.

And still better, if you start Live for the first time the "info" view in the lower left corner is visible. You can move with the mouse over all track buttons and you'll find so a description for every button, switch or popup. Including the one for "Monitoring" and the hint to the "Monitor trough Live" switch in the preferences.

The "Monitor trough Live" is off by default to avoid a possible feedback if you select "Live In" and switch on the monitoring in a track. This is especially made for the using of a Microphone where it's really easy to make such a feedback.

The only thing that is not nice is that by default the "In/Out" view is not visible.

regards,
Alex

tribalogical
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 7:26 pm
Location: boise, idaho

Post by tribalogical » Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:38 pm

hey, well....

If you're using an english manual, try page 71, section 2.6.1...

it's 5 easy steps to bliss... :)

peace,

tribalogical

Chet
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:32 pm

Post by Chet » Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:40 am

step 5: Activate Track Monitoring.

Great..how do I do that?....(a few seconds of head scratching)...I know, I'll bet you it's in the Audio settings where the other 'Default OFF' settings are. Yup. So's I turn on monitoring (after wondering why it's off in the first place)....and ....wait for it.....NOTHING.

Why? Because, in addition to turning on program-wide monitoring, I also have to turn on the monitoring track by track. Why do I have to turn on the monitoring in TWO SEPARATE PLACES, neither of which is explicity explained in the manual? I dunno. German engineering, I s'pose. I can understand building in the OPTION to turn OFF the monitoring track by track..but why should I both have to select a slave as an input option and then go ahead and tell the program I actually want to hear that slave program? Isn't that the most reasonable expectation? Isn't the decision to NOT monitor it the less likely option and therefore SHOULDN'T BE THE DEFAULT?

Once you figure it out, it's easy..but the exact procedure for turning on monitoring IN TWO SEPARATE PLACES is not mentioned in the manual anywhere that I can find, and more importantly, not explicitly spelled out in the manual under the ReWire procedure. So, we have a breakdown first in the manual, which assumes that someone will automatically KNOW how/where to turn on track monitoring; and then we have a second breakdown in a program that requires you to turn on track monitoring.....and then go ahead and turn on track monitoring AGAIN, track by track. Who would think that the answer to turning on track monitoring is to turn on track monitoring again in a different place?

I came across a similar problem when trying to figure out how to input via a Mic. Sure, you have to select 'Live In' from the input settings...except, of course, that 'Live In' doesn't appear as an input option until you go into the Audio preferences and turn ON the 'Live In' option that has been mysteriously defaulted in the OFF position. If you're new to the program (that would be me), all you see is an input menu that doesn't allow you anything that looks like a 'Mic In' option, and there's nothing to lead you to believe that you need to go to the Audio Preferences and turn on an option that should be defaulted ON and not OFF. Leaving it defaulted ON doesn't screw anything up because you STILL have to select 'Live In' as an input setting (after you go into the preferences or view menu and turn on the input menu that has, once again, mysteriously been defaulted OFF).

This is a huge block to program transparency that has no necessary function.....except to annoy and frustrate new users, perhaps.

Can someone please tell me WHY you'd want all these options defaulted to off? If you want to use a different input than the built in audio controller, THEN you might have the sufficient forethought to check for a preferences menu that addresses such a need. Who would think the program would be defaulted to ignore the 'built-in audio controller' in preference to NOTHING AT ALL? Likewise, who would expect the manual to reference an input menu that is defaulted to be turned off in the view menu without telling you that, in order to locate the view menu, you have to activate it? Likewise, why is monitoring set to OFF in two different places by default? Why not leave program wide monitoring ON by default, seeing as it doesn't use system resources until you actually activate the monitoring on the track anyway...right?

Chet
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:32 pm

Post by Chet » Sat Mar 15, 2003 1:14 am

The "Monitor trough Live" is off by default to avoid a possible feedback if you select "Live In" and switch on the monitoring in a track. This is especially made for the using of a Microphone where it's really easy to make such a feedback.
Wouldn't it have been easier to simply make it impossible to do both at the same time? IE, switching on 'Live In' shuts off monitoring (in the track) and vice versa?

Alex
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Location: Ableton Headquarter

Post by Alex » Sat Mar 15, 2003 2:35 am

Hi Chet,

you're right that that the manual is missing something like an explicit guide "How to ReWire".

But you still talk about different things. The "Monitor trough Live" switch in the audio preferences is just related to "Live In". It doesn't affect ReWire.

The basic idea of the "Monitoring" switch in the track is to decide if the track's audio source is internal (playing clip) or external ("Master Out", "Live In", ReWire). So you can select "Live In" and having a clip playing in that track. And with the "Monitoring" button you can decide which audio signal has to go into the track.

But if you can hear a monitored signal or not depends of the input source.
"Master Out" : Never hearable.
"Live In": Depending on the "Monitor trough Live" switch in preferences
"ReWire" : Always hearable

Wouldn't it have been easier to simply make it impossible to do both at the same time? IE, switching on 'Live In' shuts off monitoring (in the track) and vice versa?
I tried to say in my last post that it's not so easy to switch the "Monitor trough Live" on by default because the feedback problem. It's also not enough to make it just depending on the "Live In" selection. Sometimes you want to hear the signal trough Live and sometimes not (mainly for recording). Beside that the "Monitor trough Live" dependencies is explained in the Info view for the track's "monitoring" button.

Inside Ableton we had and have a lot of discussion about these "Monitoring" issues and of course we're trying to find the easiest solution. But I assume there's no setting that's perfect for every user. But for the first run of Live we have to decide for one settings. Beside the fact that this monitoring issue will be changed in some way for the next major release, please have abit patience with us.

Like I also said is that it's a bug that the In/Out view is not visible by default.

Who would think the program would be defaulted to ignore the 'built-in audio controller' in preference to NOTHING AT ALL?

Why not leave program wide monitoring ON by default, seeing as it doesn't use system resources until you actually activate the monitoring on the track anyway...right?

Sorry but I don't understand. What do you mean with "ignore" and what with "system resources"?


By the way I hope we talk about Live 2.0.3 or do you use Live 1.5.2?

regards,
Alex

Chet
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:32 pm

Post by Chet » Sat Mar 15, 2003 5:22 pm

"ReWire" : Always hearable
Not 'hearable' unless you have monitoring set to ON. And in order to monitor, you have to turn on monitoring in two places.

I'm using Live 2.0.3.

Also, same with the 'Live In' as an input source. It does not become available in the dropdown menu (I mean, it doesn't even show up at all) until you go to the Audio Preferences and select 'Built-In Audio' as the Input Type.

Glad to know you guys are working on it though..and it's not a problem..once you get past the initial learning stage and figure out the bizarre way that Live wants you to do things.

It's sorta like working with Windows....unintuitive, but once you figure it out, you forget how unintuitive it is until something better comes along.....and of course, something better always comes along (Unless you have enough money to put the competition out of business).

Alex
Posts: 4006
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2002 1:07 pm
Location: Ableton Headquarter

Post by Alex » Sat Mar 15, 2003 9:31 pm

Hi Chet,
Not 'hearable' unless you have monitoring set to ON. And in order to monitor, you have to turn on monitoring in two places.
That's why I talked of "monitored" signals. And again, "Monitor trough Live" is just related to "Live In" and not to ReWire.

We select no audio input device by default if you use "Mme/DirectX" on PC or "CoreAudio" on OS X. We do that simply to reduce the CPU consumption a little bit and why the most user doens't start to record immediately if they run Live for the first time.

I think within an Audio software it is reasonable to select your own audio settings if you run the software for the first time. If you would have an additional soundcard or want to change the Latency settings you also have to go to the Audio preferences.

There's also an extra chapter in the manual about the Preferences dialogs.

regards,
Alex

Chet
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:32 pm

Post by Chet » Sun Mar 16, 2003 6:03 pm

I think within an Audio software it is reasonable to select your own audio settings if you run the software for the first time. If you would have an additional soundcard or want to change the Latency settings you also have to go to the Audio preferences.
Well it's good to have an explanation, but obviously if I have a soundcard, I would THINK to go change the settings..otherwise I would assume the program would just use the built-in as the default, not NOTHING WHATSOEVER as default. Likewise, if I had external equipment (mixers, whatever..NOT something as basic as a mic), I would KNOW that I need to change some settings. But if I'm rewiring for the first time, is it unreasonable to assume that I should hear some sound throught the track channels without having to enable a bunch of stuff first? It's easier for me on my Mac, because I can be pretty sure that it has something to do with your program and not my soundcard, or conflicts with my OS or some strange Windows wonkiness that is causing the problem. Is it too much for me to assume that you guys have taken care of the 'no brainer' stuff first? I mean, the first time I should have to monkey with the Audio Settings is when I'm using something other than the most obvious default equipment. I mean, is it entirely unreasonable to assume that the first thing I'm going to use to input will be the 'built-in' audio? If it's not, at that point I will probably KNOW I need to fiddle with a setting somewhere. I mean, why is it reasonable to assume that I'm going to rewires something in, but I don't want to hear it? Sure, that situation may very well come up, but isn't if FAR more likely that I'm going to want to hear it?

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