Uhh, there are some problems here.....

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
CloudyJim
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Uhh, there are some problems here.....

Post by CloudyJim » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:16 am

I recorded a clip(acoustic guitar picking/strumming) from the session view and double clicked it to get the loop boundaries set. I recorded the track with the metronome so everything seemed to be aligned. Of course, I cut the first and last notes in half when I moved the loop boundaries over them. I thought this warping feature was supposed to work, if you move it two pixels it screws up the sound of my acoustic guitar. It doesn't seem to work well at all, it sounds exactley how you would expect a stretched clip to sound......stretched.

The question: If I record a clip to a metronome, I am obviously going to have to move the marks a tad to the left to get all of the first note and the last marker a tad to the left to cut off the last note so that it sounds seamless when looped. I can't seem to turn off the "snap to grid" function, nor can I find any reference to it in the documentation. Is there a way to move the whole clip with the grid staying where it is? Is there a way to get more grid lines per beat? Does this make sense?

I thought maybe the quantization feature could lead me somewhere. I am new to this, but I know how to use an index. I went to the documentation index and found "Quantization: with clips p. 92". Well, I'll be damned if p. 92 or any of the surrounding pages has anything to do with Quantization. I searched for the word and found plenty of references in the PDF, but not an explanation of what it actually does or how it works. There is no help file under the HELP menu.

Clearscreen
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Post by Clearscreen » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:26 am

sounds odd... which warping method are you using? complex should give the best results, and texture is pretty adjustable.
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CloudyJim
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Post by CloudyJim » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:31 am

I tried several. the complex seemed to act like a compressor in smoothing out the tone. i think what I need here is smaller subdivisions of each beat/measure. Can I get 1.4.5?

Clearscreen
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Post by Clearscreen » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:54 am

ummm... 1.4.5 is 2 i think...
and i'm fairly sure you can't adjust the warp resolution, but if someone wants to prove me wrong i'd be happy to hear it!
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CloudyJim
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Post by CloudyJim » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:10 am

honestly, i would like to avoid the warping altogether, it doesn't seem necessary for looping. I play well enough to match the click track......but that is exactly the problem.

Let's say I am playing a 'cowboy' crosspicking rhythm on acoustic guitar. It sounds like this.

"DOOM CHUKAH CHUKAH CHUKAH CHUKAH DOOM CHUKAH......" etc.

If I try to isolate one cycle of this pattern, using Live's grid, the best I can get is

"OM CHUKAH CHUKAH CHUKAH CHUHKAH DO"

The DOOM is cut in half. I really want this to be better than the other two packages I have tried, Cubase and Sonar(and Cool Edit Pro) where you can simply isolate the loop and visually slide the whole audio clip to match up with the points in the grid.

Is this not possible?

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:33 am

yes, this *is* possible, but the clip doesn't record before the beat - therefore you should press record, wait for a bar and then play. That way you have a preroll that you can mess with.
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CloudyJim
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Post by CloudyJim » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:36 am

the part I have isolated is probably 10 beats after pressing record.

The "OM CHUKAH CHUKAH CHUKAH CHUKAH DO" is somewhere in the middle of the actual recording. I simply cannot move it two spaces to the right to get "DOOM" to appear just after a grid point.

jerry123
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Post by jerry123 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:37 am

Damn! Pre-roll! Next it'll be Sharpies and masking tape!

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:37 am

well you shouldn't try to move the audio, you should move the start marker instead.
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CloudyJim
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Post by CloudyJim » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:40 am

"Damn! Pre-roll! Next it'll be Sharpies and masking tape!"

What does that mean?

EDIT: I just read what a pre-roll is. I really must not have explained my self well. If I record this line.

DOOM CHUKAH CHUKAH DOOM CHUKAH CHUKAH DOOM CHUKAH CHUKAH DOOM CHUKAH CHUKAH DOOM CHUKAH CHUKAH DOOM CHUKAH CHUKAH

I move my marker over to the second DOOM and my ending marker to the third doom, what do I get?

OM CHUKAH CHUKAH DO

Because the snap-to grid markers cut the notes in half. It won't let me stop the marker just before the DOOM soundwave appears. I looked at all of the sample clips that Live comes with, they all have a few milliseconds of silence before and after the actuall musical notes. This isn't practical for most music.

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:52 am

Why not just turn the grid off then? ctrl+4
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CloudyJim
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Post by CloudyJim » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:59 am

Machinete, I am in the session view. I have recorded the clip in the session view and ctrl+4 does nothing.

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:17 am

then you'll probably need to click in the clip view first, then press ctrl+4. This turns the grid off and allows you to move the start marker around as you wish. You'll avoid skewing the internal timing of your recording, you just get to offfset the whole thing.
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borg
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Post by borg » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:43 pm

don't know if i get it completely, but how about disabling all warp markers (the greenish ones) except '1' and drag that to your DOOM and work from there? at least now you have your clip starting exactly where you want and have it sound as you recorded it. now, the better you have played your lick in time, the easier it will be to get your second warp marker right.
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nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:58 pm

Given the number of back and forth on this thread, it might it be useful if CloudyJim would provide an audio sample of the guitar lick (so we can hear the problem) as well as a screenshot of the recorded clip warped the way you have it warped. As you can see, there's lots of people eager to help :) and there has got to be a solution, because if looped correctly, you should not lose the first transient of your clip at all.

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