Sad CPU Load issue on a new PowerBook G4 1 ghz 17" 512

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
:mic-minimal

Post by :mic-minimal » Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:19 pm

so let me see if i'm reading between the lines correctly, what everybody seems to be saying is that in todays world

1. both macs and pc's will make great tools to make music with

2. you get more bang for the buck with a pc

3. and if Live is your main application, you should definitely
get a pc

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:39 pm

That seems a fair assesment to me.

In reply to: "The drivers will go down to 64 samples because that's ASIO's limit, not the card's. On my sound card I can set the latency to anything I want, but that doesn't mean it will work correctly."

Well, that's true. However the hardware of the card mentioned has a little bit of help, older now but hey it works, in the form of some DSP processing to help the streaming along as well as run plugins onboard such as Drawmer compressors, TC Dynamizer\everb, Aphex, etc so in a solid system actually does work reliably at 64 samples (the plugin latency as said above is 2 samples).

The point I think being made was that working at sib 3ms latencies is nothing new on a PC platform. The drivers haven't even been updated in over a year because they plain just work and that update was for a nice freebie multiband EQ plugin that runs onboard the card.

Macs and PC's both make great tools and whatever works for you then fine. But it ain't better just cos it costs more has an Apple logo on or runs OSX and it's about time this myth was debunked if not only for the people that actually really do believe this.

esoterica
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 2:19 pm

Post by esoterica » Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:45 pm

Anonymous wrote: Macs and PC's both make great tools and whatever works for you then fine. But it ain't better just cos it costs more has an Apple logo on or runs OSX and it's about time this myth was debunked if not only for the people that actually really do believe this.
If you can get latencies as low as you claim, then more power to you and I entirely agree with your go-with-what-works assessment. But I hope your "cos it has an Apple logo" argument is separate from your "cos it costs more" argument, because if it's not you haven't read the entire thread. I'll state again: a two-year-old out-of-the-box iBook costs the same as and gets similar latencies to just the sound card you use in your example. So again, I agree that just because it costs more doesn't make it better, just maybe not in the way you intended.

esoterica
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Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 2:19 pm

Post by esoterica » Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:00 pm

:mic-minimal wrote:1. both macs and pc's will make great tools to make music with
Yes.
2. you get more bang for the buck with a pc.
Not necessarily. If you need to run just Live with lots of effects, almost definitely.
3. and if Live is your main application, you should definitely
get a pc
If Live is your only application, you should probably get a PC (a Mac can still be at least equally cost effective depending on how you need to use Live). If you need Logic, Digital Performer, Final Cut Pro (actually a great program for editing audio, especially in the new 4 incarnation, which is supposed to have Melodyne-like re-pitching) or Final Scratch then Mac is your only choice (you can run Final Scratch on a PC with Linux, but only in very limited configurations and obviously not in conjunction with any other software). Conversely, if you need Acid or Cakewalk or PCDJ you need a PC (though Apple has apparently hired away all the main programmers of Acid from Sonic Foundry).

ZeroAltitude
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Location: Worcester, MA, USA
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Post by ZeroAltitude » Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:51 pm

Hi esoterica,

I understand your point. But nevertheless, with a 150 buck aftermarket soundcard, the total price of my PC setup is vastly less than that of an iBook.

In many senses I agree with you. My preferred computer is my TiBook. Part of my reason for this is that I find that the TiBook platform fits me better as a unix programmer cum musician than any other platform can (including linux). But if someone wants to know about performance per dollar for nearly anything, including photoshop, which Adobe recently seems to have acknowledged is faster on PCs now, a conclusion that independent tests have confirmed -- then I think that based on *that* consideration, performance/dollar, you must always, at this juncture in history, say that the PC is the better value.

That having been said, my TiBook with OSX/Live/Reason is (1) more stable, (2) has better compatibility with the MOTU products I use, (3) is more fun to use, (4) has in my estimation more interesting software, (5) has the nice feature in a laptop of having a non-mirrored second screen via its SVGA out (a feature I have yet to see on a PC laptop I've ever been near), (6) has in my estimation more potential for future wow-hood in terms of performance boosts and new developments in CoreAudio... and therefore I find that there may be other very significant reasons to still consider a Mac, even knowing what one knows about the performance per dollar ratios.

-0

Another Guest

Post by Another Guest » Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:54 am

ZeroAltitude wrote:Hi esoterica,

That having been said, my TiBook with OSX/Live/Reason is (1) more stable, (2) has better compatibility with the MOTU products I use, (3) is more fun to use, (4) has in my estimation more interesting software, (5) has the nice feature in a laptop of having a non-mirrored second screen via its SVGA out (a feature I have yet to see on a PC laptop I've ever been near), (6) has in my estimation more potential for future wow-hood in terms of performance boosts and new developments in CoreAudio... and therefore I find that there may be other very significant reasons to still consider a Mac, even knowing what one knows about the performance per dollar ratios.

-0
Ditto. My setup exactly, and nobody would make these Mac vs PC comparisons if the software (Live) was optimized for the G4 chips (yet another hint hint to get on the ball Abletons!). Because there really is something about the apple experience and things do tend to run smoother on a Mac (and faster if optimized).

Case in point, I just bought a new 3.06 GHz PC with 1 GB of ram and Windows XP Pro, haven't tested Live yet on it (I'm sure it will be incredible) but just a simple thing like plugging in a usb drive or a usb camera that's compatible with this PC, the Pc immediatley starts screaming to connect to the internet to download drivers and for me to OK digital Certificates and signatures, etc., etc., where as on my TiBook, I plug in the "Dell" usb keychain drive and 'BOOM', shows up in Mac OS X as a drive! No drivers to install, No Problems! Same goes with this DVD-Rom I just got that came with a graphics book called 'MetalHeart Is Movement' and have yet to get it to work on my NEW two week old 3.06 Ghz PC! But boy does it run Unreal Tournement 2003 like a dream (about the only thing PC's are truely good for!!!)

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:11 am

Yup, you're probably better off using a Mac going by that then.

Guest In A Vest

Post by Guest In A Vest » Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:12 am

:D

jamief
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Post by jamief » Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:26 am

esoterica wrote:
:mic-minimal wrote:1. both macs and pc's will make great tools to make music with
Yes.
2. you get more bang for the buck with a pc.
Not necessarily. If you need to run just Live with lots of effects, almost definitely.
3. and if Live is your main application, you should definitely
get a pc
If Live is your only application, you should probably get a PC (a Mac can still be at least equally cost effective depending on how you need to use Live). If you need Logic, Digital Performer, Final Cut Pro (actually a great program for editing audio, especially in the new 4 incarnation, which is supposed to have Melodyne-like re-pitching) or Final Scratch then Mac is your only choice (you can run Final Scratch on a PC with Linux, but only in very limited configurations and obviously not in conjunction with any other software). Conversely, if you need Acid or Cakewalk or PCDJ you need a PC (though Apple has apparently hired away all the main programmers of Acid from Sonic Foundry).[/quot
:roll:

Final scratch doesnt run on Macs at the moment , unless the software has just arrived in the last few days. It is Pc only. It is due shortly though as are the much vaunted new generation of supermacs, which i incidently can't use because of their osx only running software status, live does not have rewire slave in OSX right now and that's no use for moi, cubase VST 32 is my front end midi,vsti's and audio recorder not to mention my sound to picture sync via quicktime import to external Tv so i,m staying with OS9.2 till the next major update of live and thinking of powerlogix upgrade cards dual 1ghz - 1.25 ghz dual for my desktop to see me through. Live rewired through cubase is my my sole audio sequencer now with all arrangments and automation being undertaken inside the program itself and no longer in Cubase alas.
By the way i,m a mac man running a G4 desktop and a Titanium i,m waiting for final scratch myself.


best


J~F :)

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