Converting stereo track to mono without losing stereo sound

[CloudyJim]

I have a guitar miced with a matched pair, I like the outcome. However, i want to be able to pan the entire sound, without losing one of the mics. Make sense?

What is the best method for getting the entire stereo field condensed to a mono track for panning?

I am new to recording in general, so if i am barking up the wrong tree with this idea, please let me know.

thanks,

[stinky]

Why not just bounce the tracks to a stereo, or send them both to one audio channel, and pan the audio channel? Maybe i'm missing something in your query?

[CloudyJim]

Stinky,

I am just trying to figure out the best method of getting the full sound of stereo micing in a mono track. Bouncing the tracks is the first thing I thought of, but I thought there may be a better method out there than recording and bouncing. This seems a bit tedious when recording quick ideas, "on the fly", in session view.

There seems to be a lot of tricks these days and there are a lot of utilities out there and I don't know much about any of them.

[stinky]

Well, if you don't want to bounce, you'll have a full range of motion and options by routing both channels to one audio channel, and using just that one audio channel... then you won't have to keep bouncing... my advice, try not to make it more complex than it has to be... then you won't waste alot of time.. if you think of something later, you can always go back to it... cheers...

[oldbetseysatan]

You could buss them (pre-soundcard) to same track while recording but then it's not stereo. At least then your using both sounds. Or like, um, stinky, said you can always bounce them after.

Unfortunately you can't keep things in 'true' stereo if your using a mono signal. You can fiddle with it, tweak it spreading the mono signal out with short delays etc. but if you want 'true' stereo your gonna hav'ta use two tracks.

Or conversely, just shift the sound field of the two tracks using the pan on both channels.

I do that sometimes when I've recorded a guitar with 2 mics (I normally use a Royer 121 and an SM57).

I'll record 2 takes (which equals 4 tracks) then I'll pan 1 Royer (low and growly) on the left and the 57 (quite bright and edgy) to the right and reverse the other two mics (Royer - right, 57 - left).

Sounds amazing sometimes. Sometimes it sucks. You can never really tell.

Good luck,

R.

[Machinate]

There seems to be a lot of tricks these days and there are a lot of utilities out there and I don't know much about any of them.

Well, one of those utilities is the utility plugin - has a width knob on it. turn it down, then use the "pan" knob - which isn't a pan knob at all, it's a balance knob, but we'll leave that for another discussion...

[rikhyray]

Recording more then 1 mic to mono or stereo track is a bad, actually disastrous idea. It is almost impossible to get good guitar sound from just one mic but even if you use just 1 mic it will be 99% better then messing with pre record mixing of more then one source.

2 condensors, at least one of them U 87, one good dynamic and DI are my favourite setup- each goes to separate track
If you want to use 2 mics set them to separate mono tracks. Placing the mics is the most important factor, depending on the instrument, player, room etc, etc.

[oldbetseysatan]

Recording more then 1 mic to mono or stereo track is a bad, actually disastrous idea.

Why would you say that recording more than one mic to a single track is 'disasterous'?

People have been bussing multiple mics to single tracks (and stereo tracks, when needed, for that matter) since the beginning of, um, recorded, recording history or thereabouts.

You gotta watch for phase issues but hey, mono is your friend too.

R.

[rikhyray]

[

You gotta watch for phase issues but hey, mono is your friend too.

R.

You said it!
HD space is cheap, it is not like old days , calculating "how many tracks left" the luxury saving it for mixing became available for everybody.
Mono is definitely your friend.
Since the original poster ask what he asked, it is obvious he is not that experienced to handle multi mic system, if there is anyone at all who can really do it.

[CloudyJim]

Unfortunately you can't keep things in 'true' stereo if your using a mono signal. You can fiddle with it, tweak it spreading the mono signal out with short delays etc. but if you want 'true' stereo your gonna hav'ta use two tracks.

So, two mics recording to one stereo track isn't true stereo? I'm not challending the statement, just trying to learn. Why would two mono tracks(one per mic) sound any different, if they were panned hard left and right?

I have been recording with two condensors in XY formation and am getting great results. It DEFINATELY sounds better than with just one mic. I haven't tried two mics to two seperate tracks, it just seemed like it would be inconvenient .....ie....I would have to edit both tracks exactly the same way, or apply the effects twice, etc.

Is it possible to record in stereo and split the stereo track into two mono tracks? I remember attempting this in sonar and it just created two mono tracks of the left side of the stereo field.

It's not that I need to hear it in stereo, it just that two mics in XY can capture more of the guitars natural sound. So, if two mono tracks where layered and panned hard left, it would still be the full sound, just not in true 'stereo'. Is this correct?

[stinky]

Recording more then 1 mic to mono or stereo track is a bad, actually disastrous idea.

Um, making it sound like the end of the world is quite a stretch. Can we all agree that at one point, it's going to wind up in stereo? That seems logical to me.. however... as you said,

HD space is cheap, it is not like old days , calculating "how many tracks left" the luxury saving it for mixing became available for everybody.

Sounds like you can go back at any point, right? So, let's go back to this one...

People have been bussing multiple mics to single tracks (and stereo tracks, when needed, for that matter) since the beginning of, um, recorded, recording history or thereabouts.

You gotta watch for phase issues but hey, mono is your friend too.

What have we learned folks? First, relax.... you're not going to mess up, unless you don't have the original take, save save save.... Second, do more research, so that you can make an informed decision based on your needs and assessments... try searching the forums for "miking techniques guitar", this has definitely come up before, and check sound on sound... Also, since you're using 2 mics, you'll probably want to do some research on "mid side techniques"... just do a regular google search... At the end of the road, you'll know what you need, and with practice, you'll be able to get it right... Third, try to be as rational as possible, and assess the variables. It's not rocket science...

But, i digress... keep your mono in mono, but sum up in stereo to check your phase issues (and back to mono compatibility), because eventually, you'll wind up in stereo.

cheers...

[oldbetseysatan]

Cloudy, Sorry I think I miss understood you. I thought you wanted to make one stereo track (ie two physical audio tracks) into one mono track (ie. one audio track) and STILL have it sound stereo.

But yes, if you record two mics to two audio channels, this is a stereo recording. If you record two mics to one audio channel, it's mono.

You can then try and trick the ear into thinking the mono signal is stereo but it's never going to be the same.

There's no rule that says you can't pan the two stereo tracks how you want though. You can them panned hard left/right. Both left, both right or anywhere in between. The only thing you have to watch out for is phase between the two mics and what happens when you either pan or bounce them into mono.

As far a M/S recording (mid/side) is concerned, it's a lovely way to record sounds in stereo (I use it for drum ambients quite alot) but you'll need at least one multi-pattern mic (or one figure 8 ) and another cardiod.

Not sure what mics you have though...

Good luck and have fun,

R.

[nolus]

this thread might be of interest to you. it's a tip showing how to set up stereo panning, with some discussion, about the relative merits of different methods.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27844

[oldbetseysatan]

WAIT A SECOND...

Are you talking about when you record your two mics to a stereo track and then try and use the pan on the stereo channel that it basically either cuts the volume on one side or the other? So your panning BETWEEN one sound and another and not the WHOLE track?

You don't want to 'convert' the signal to mono as you said in your first post you jsut want to be to pan the left and right (x/y) sperately, right?

In Pro Tools, you have seperate pan knobs for left and right on stereo tracks so you can easily shift the stereo field narrower/wider this way but in Live you don't so...

In this case I humbly apologise to Machinate and suggest you follow his instructions and fiddle with the 'utility' plug-in and like he said turn down the width knob on your stereo track and then pan from there.

Jeez, I REALLY have to start getting my head around the way things are done differently here in Live...

I'll shut up now and well, shut up

[oldbetseysatan]

this thread might be of interest to you. it's a tip showing how to set up stereo panning, with some discussion, about the relative merits of different methods.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27844

Duh, like he said...

OK NOW I'll shut up.

R.