Cubase SX3 + Live 5: production teqniques

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
supster
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Post by supster » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:49 am

nebulae wrote: Just keep Live around to just play...the one thing that Live can always do is just release your creativity in ways that a linear sequencer just can't. If you need to use it as a sketchpad until the bugs you experience are worked out, that's a perfectly valid approach
actually, ive long passed the point where id really be comfortable writing any other way. hard to imagine, really - as far as everything (and that means just about everything) other than actually sequencing out a song left to right, im still doing it all in Live and theres still nothing like it imo.

its such a shame that the arrange view performs the way it does; even on a rig where the problems are not as severe as mine, ive never heard anyone rave about the speed of it.

theres something about the way it represents clips algorithmically that doesnt allow them to be really fluid in manipulating them around like you can with regions in SX/PT. the extra lag and lockups are bugginess ON TOP of that unfortunate state of affairs i think
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amo
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Post by amo » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:00 am

Well, in Pro Tools, to automate an eq parameter, you've got to open the plugin's interface, click "auto", chosse the parameter. Then it appears on the automation list. (maybe the auto button is somewhere else too, don't remember). But then you can only see one parameter per track (like in Live !) which is not so good.
To be fair, I must say the automation curves are nice to edit in PT, though no sinusoides or paraboles etc... and sometimes (I don't get when), the link with audio parts is lost when moveing them. that's the worst !

So, now you can probably tell us about SX4, if you already own it ? :lol:
Live 5.0.3 - IBM Thinkpad R51 1.5ghz Centrino - 1,5 Go RAM - 7200 RPM 2nd HDD intern - RME Multiface - Windows XP Pro SP2

WaveRider
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Re: Cubase SX3 + Live 5: production teqniques

Post by WaveRider » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:31 pm

supster wrote:after resisting this for a long time now ive finally accepted Live is not going to cut it as my only main sequencer anymore.

... but do all of my final arrangement, realtime VST, and mixdown in SX3.
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sounds like a nice idea.... :)

jendask
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Post by jendask » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:02 pm

I have an Athlon 2,6 512 RAM, Firepod soundcard. I tried to use Cubase 3 to record my 8 audio tracks and Live at the same time to create loops(especially midi loops from vst instruments) on the fly. The whole system got crazy...
Should I necessarily use rewire or is it possible without it? Which is the best way to route midi signals? ( I use three different Vst instruments)

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:11 pm

I have not used Cubase since quite a some time- didnt install by last OS refresh but will have to get back to it. Live 6 update dissapointed me, same primitive midi, when it was introduced in ver.4 I kind of accepted the limitations since it was new but 2 more versions and it is same thing more or less.
Trying to work with Live and any hardware synths is a waste of time and energy, except plain unsynced recoding live to audio.
Live is great for working fast, good when the fees are moderate so can do more in less time, and lots of other stuff but I dont like to be limited by it anymore.
Cubase will suit me better then Protools because I want to overcome Live´s biggest limitation - lame midi. I am too much used to the speed of work with Live so dont think it will be much more that the midi thing for me.
If you use any hardware synths get Midex, combined with Cubase it is the tightest setup there is next only to hardware sequencing- dont know exactly why/how, they advertised it as some fancy technology, I dont care really, just know/hear it is the thightest.

jendask
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Post by jendask » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:51 pm

I think we are talking about different things here...
I only use soft synths like NI Pro53, B4.

shiba_dad
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Post by shiba_dad » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:29 pm

rikhyray wrote:.
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Trying to work with Live and any hardware synths is a waste of time and energy, except plain unsynced recoding live to audio.
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I have been struggling with Live 6 and my access virus TI all week. sync issues, huge latencies, stuck arp notes, inabilty to access the audio from individual parts. I got Live because I was having some minor issues with the TI and Sonar and Live is a supported host for Virus Control VST, but I'm giving up and going back to Sonar. Possibly some of my issues were just not knowing how, but I read the manual, did the tutorials, asked questions here and in the TI forum, but couldn't resolve the problems. I liked Live a lot and really wanted to use it, but just couldnt get the TI and Live working as well a it did in Sonar.
PC XP pro SP2, dual Xeons
Live 6, Sonar 6PE
Access Virus TI, Rapture,Albino3,z3ta+,wulkistation

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:45 pm

Shiba-

DON'T GIVE UP! A lot of folks have gotten TI and Live to play well. Try one last time with some concerted effort, and it'll pay off. Sent a message to Tarekith - he's a god with the TI. All in all, don't jump ship just yet. Trust me, I've been there, and it pays to stick with the learning curve.

-Neb

spherop
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Post by spherop » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:35 am

it's interesting reading this thread...

i left cubase sx3 to produce my last track in live 6. i have more or less given up on cubase because of slow evolution of the product and lack of stability and fixing horrid bugs.

while i have had exactly the same issues with the lack of performance and completeness of functionality of the arranger window - i still overall have felt live to be a huge breath of fresh air after years in the cubase world. when i use live - i really have the feeling that its evolution has been very well planned; and it gives me hope that the issues it does have will be fixed. far more hope than i had with cubase. so we'll swhat happens.

but certainly working in live to create and edit/mix in another daw has a lot of sense to it.

i have been keeping a close eye on reaper for that - as a cubase replacement. already its ahead in key areas. and it's pace of development compared to cubase (and stability) are not in the same universe.

just some thoughts...

jendask
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Post by jendask » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:29 am

:) Is there anybody here doing what I'm trying to do? :oops:

donnydonny
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Post by donnydonny » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:59 am

jendask wrote::) Is there anybody here doing what I'm trying to do? :oops:
You might not have enough RAM to be doing all that at the same time. What bit-depth and sample rate are you recording at? (I would assume 24/44.1)

And for using the VSTi's in Live, it might just be easier to sequence the MIDI tracks in Cubase unless you're playing most of it live. It will also be less CPU intensive if you can use a laptop and output it into the Firepod. You'll end up with the same effect as recording a live keyboardist.

The first thing I wrote would be the best solution, IMO.

donnydonny
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Post by donnydonny » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:03 am

shiba_dad wrote:I have been struggling with Live 6 and my access virus TI all week. sync issues, huge latencies, stuck arp notes, inabilty to access the audio from individual parts. I got Live because I was having some minor issues with the TI and Sonar and Live is a supported host for Virus Control VST, but I'm giving up and going back to Sonar. Possibly some of my issues were just not knowing how, but I read the manual, did the tutorials, asked questions here and in the TI forum, but couldn't resolve the problems. I liked Live a lot and really wanted to use it, but just couldnt get the TI and Live working as well a it did in Sonar.
You know.. that Virus Control is one of the worst software programs I've ever seen. I can't believe that Access released the most unstable control interface for one of the best synthesizers ever made. It's like "Hey, we're gonna make a program to control this awesome synth, but to make it easy on you guys we're gonna make the GUI look absolutely nothing like the synth. And on top of that, this program won't work whatsoever. Thanks for your money!".

My recommendation, screw the usb/VST aspect and use it like a normal hardware synth (midi cables and good ol' "analog" recording). You shouldn't have anymore complaints.

jendask
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Post by jendask » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:25 pm

You might not have enough RAM to be doing all that at the same time. What bit-depth and sample rate are you recording at? (I would assume 24/44.1)..

And for using the VSTi's in Live, it might just be easier to sequence the MIDI tracks in Cubase unless you're playing most of it live. It will also be less CPU intensive if you can use a laptop and output it into the Firepod. You'll end up with the same effect as recording a live keyboardist.

The first thing I wrote would be the best solution, IMO.
I want to play everything live and I must use Live to make my loops. But I want to record the audio in Cubase because I work with other people who have always been using Cubase and it is the only program they really know...

Last night I tried this:
Without rewiring I set Cubase to record 7 audio tracks + 0ne track which came from the master output of Live. It seems to wotk so far , we'll see

spherop
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Post by spherop » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:09 pm

i haven't done it yet ...

but my approach would be to go as far as possible in Live - then when it's time to mixdown. Consolodate all tracks from start to end of song. Create cubase project - and copy/move the consol tracks into the cubase project "audio" folder. Import each into the project and start mixing.

As for MIDI - you can either bring in the midi itelf per track and load up VSTis you used in the live mix. Or you can export the audio from Live leaving all midi work in Live.

The issues that one will likely face is the going back and forth aspect - ie., once you start the cubase part of the process - then harder and harder to go back to the Live set to tweak from there without things getting out of whack.

I would think any sort of reqire thing would use so much memory and processor that it would be useless if the issues stem from Live's overloading the proc when trying to use Arrangement...but maybe i am off base on this.

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