Very OT, 9/11

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forgie
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Post by forgie » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:23 am

noisetonepause wrote:Nod, the man likes Ann Coulter. There's no point.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ann_Coulte ... _and_Islam
Woah, I didn't know that people like here were allowed out on the streets... funny stuff. Oh wait on, she's not a satirist, she's serious! That would pass for satire in any country other then the US!

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Post by sqook » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:42 am

Wow, I love ignoring these threads until they're a good 20+ pages long, and then just reading the last few pages to see how nutty and overly-emotional everything has become. Classic!

I give a big thumbs-up to the rockem-sockem robots picture, too. :)

forgie
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Post by forgie » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:43 am

I think the only real conclusion from this thread is that;

a) Most people have no insight into the world around them, and don't even realise it. They think they do, but then criticise 'Liberals'. It's like some people don't have the intellectual capacity for insight, but they are opinionated anyway. Very sad.

b) "Ego-protection" is alive and well. If you don't know what this means, or can't take a good guess at it, then unfortunately for you, you're in the group of 'un-insightfuls'. Sucks for you. Actually it doesn't suck for you - because people like you have such strong convictions that you never really question the things that more philosophical people will question - which will make your life much more stress free, possibly even happier. Ignorance is bliss. Existentialism is not.

Good luck with your lives, all of you. If you don't know what an existential dilemma is from personal experience, I'd recommend you reconsider having a political opinion. It just makes you look kind of stupid. Ah well, it's your life, not mine.

Beatworld
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Post by Beatworld » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:54 am

I am speechless.

Having just spent some time reading quotes from Ann Coulter I was gobsmacked when I read her bio which includes this gem :

After practicing law in private practice in New York City, Coulter worked for the Senate Judiciary Committee, where she handled crime and immigration issues for Senator Spencer Abraham of Michigan. From there, she became a litigator with the Center For Individual Rights in Washington, DC, a public interest law firm dedicated to the defense of individual rights with particular emphasis on freedom of speech, civil rights, and the free exercise of religion.


Ironic or what ??


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FireForEffect
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Post by FireForEffect » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:02 am

How is that in ANY Way ironic? Ha, so deluded you fools are. "strong convictions"...yeah look into it...its called being a man. A man has strong convictions and doesn't sit around quastioning the basic building blocks of life...I will leave that to you terrorist apologists.

What is really shocking to you all is that a couple people on here are fighting back against your usual tirade of leftist bullshit. Normally you all just agree with each others looney theories and pat each other on the back about how progressive thinking and intelligent you all are.

Your conclusion is that liberals=intelligent, conservatives=no insight into the world around them. Nothing could be furthur from the truth. Then again, truth and facts never get in the way of a discussion amongst liberals eh?

What makes you, a musician, think you have more insight into the world around you than anyone else? A soldier with boots on ground in Iraq has less insight than you do sitting at your computer twiddling Live's knobs? Uh huh.

Interesting that you forgie, think you have a higher intellectual capacity for insight than "most people"...how do you qualify that?
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Beatworld
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Post by Beatworld » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:25 am

FireForEffect wrote:How is that in ANY Way ironic?
If you can't understand the irony in what Ann Coulter says - assuming those quotes are accurate and that is her speaking - when thought of in light of that extract from her bio then I don't think me simply cutting and pasting her "Top 10 Ironic moments" will assist you.

Or are you saying that freedom of speech and free exercise of religion are fine....as long as peoples opinions are the same as yours ??

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FireForEffect
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Post by FireForEffect » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:56 am

First of all..you know nothing about Ann..she is very sarcastic on purpose. She is sassy. That is what makes her so funny. I guess only liberals are allowed to be humorous. I guess that is lost on you.

Secondly, liberals say they are all about free speech but the reality is they only like free speech when it is in line with their beliefs. Ironic that YOU have pointed that out yes? I can provide hundreds of examples of this but would more than likely be a waste of my time.

To guys like you, Ann is an "extremist" which is pretty funny to anyone on the right. It is the same thing as you guys calling Michael Savage "racist", "bigoted" or the like..nothing could be furthur from the truth.

Watch "Is it true what they say about Ann"...it will show you how completely foolish liberals behave. Then again, if you were "gobsmacked" by her bio...don't waste your time...you are lost.

The liberal double standard is alive and well. By the way, do not confuse modern liberalism with classic liberalism...they are not at all the same. People like JFK, Scoop Jackson and Zell Miller are long gone from the Democrat party in the US. The democrats have gone far left and the more left they go the furthur away from getting power back they will be.
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Beatworld
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Post by Beatworld » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:20 am

FireForEffect wrote:First of all..you know nothing about Ann..she is very sarcastic on purpose. She is sassy. That is what makes her so funny. I guess only liberals are allowed to be humorous. I guess that is lost on you.

.
So what are you saying...she is a comedi-Ann :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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forgie
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Post by forgie » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:01 am

Well I think we should let the man's words speak for him. I don't even have to respond, he's done more for his reputation on this board then any attempt at argument or discussion ever could.

forgie
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Post by forgie » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:14 am

Also,
Take this, anyone who has natural resources and a selfish government!
Image

djshiva
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Post by djshiva » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:24 am

FireForEffect wrote: A man has strong convictions and doesn't sit around quastioning the basic building blocks of life...I will leave that to you terrorist apologists.
funny. i call that being ignorant.

you are the type who would have been amongst those giving socrates the hemlock. but you probably are too much of a man to know that lovely bit of history.
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forgie
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Post by forgie » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:43 am

Socrates? He wasted his day being a sissy and thinking about pointless shit, instead of getting out into the real world and being a man! He should've been out there in the Greek military, having anal sex with other men. I kid, I'm just trying to stir this guy up since most of these conservative dudes are homophobic as well as, well I'll let his words speak for themselves.

FireForEffect
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Post by FireForEffect » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:13 am

Comedi-Ann, ha , that was actually pretty funny.. :)

Love the tag djshiva, classic. haha. You guys are too funny. You buy into every stereotype I have ever heard about "conservatives". I doubt myself or Jordan fall into your mind's idea of what a "conservative" is.

Just wondering but, did you miss the point of Team America? It and S. Park have always ripped every liberal argument to shreads. They take shots at EVERYTHING really but almost every show has an anti PC message. Team America was a total hit on Hollywood and the American left. Are the South Park guys assholes as well?, because they would agree with every point I have made on this thread. There are more conservatives in the dance scene than you would think too. We must all just be assholes. Then again, rather an asshole than an asshole liberal. ;)

You have all shown your broad open minded-ness the way you have nothing but name calling for myself and Jordan or anyone else who has attempted to present an opposing argument. (See 5 pillars picture I posted).

You guys are so tolerant that you are completely INtolerant! I have seen this time and again on here. You guys get mad at someone because of their political stance and take it out on them in another thread that has nothing to do with the political issue. Pretty pathetic. You will get far in business with that attitude. If I am working with a producer, musician or DJ who I know to be flamingly liberal, I could care less if we are working on music. Unless its someone spouting nonesense in public, as long as they keep it to themself, as I do in public, then who cares. We just avoid that topic. You guys on the other hand, are a bunch of babies. If I was to post about something else I can expect smarmy replies from you libs who think "oh, that is that evil Republican type guy, screw him"...how intellectual and wise of you all.

Did you know Ann Coulter's best friend is Bill Maher? Is he an asshole for daring to admit they are friends? Apparently they are both quite a it more mature than any of you. Do any of you have any conservative friends? I hardly think you do. You are all the bigots, why do you think conservatives have to hide their beliefs in the entertainment industry? Put out a pro Bush rock album and see if you can even find a label! Put out an anti-Bush album and well..there are plenty of em. Double standard? Hmm.

I think you all are more stired up than I have been at all. I think this thread is amusing and has some humor value. Feel free to post more anti-conservative pics, I get a kick out of them.

Best Team America line.. Spottswoode saying "This is my serious face".
:lol:
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Nod
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Post by Nod » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:39 pm

FireForEffect wrote:You have found the heart of the problem with people like you and I trying to debate..if you want to call it that.....any source or facts I present will be summarily dismissed as "partisan". There is no way to move forward. If anything was published by the Bush admin you would say its partisan so what is the point? Jordan or I could easily bury you in facts but you would still poke your head out from the top and declare that its all partisan. As I said, you are hopeless. If you want we can go around for another 30 pages but you will still think 9/11 was a secret government plot and I , and most other normal people will think you are insane.


Sure FFE - I'm sure there'll be groans all round from another epic post from me but I assure you I'm not looking for another 30 pages, which may or may not descend into pointless name calling and bitching, merely a link of your governments officially released evidence linking Iraq and 9/11. I'm not all that interested in the 9/11 conspiracy theories beyond the one's that can actually be supported by offically released facts (or the lack of them) - as it happens at this point, until I see the White House dossier you're attempting to present, I believe they have based their conclusion on links between 9/11 and Iraq on nothing more than their own conspiracy theory - which has resulted in tens of thousands dead rather than the bruising of mere egos. Again, for at least the 3rd occasion, I ask you for the published verifiable facts please. The one's your VP says he's seen?
FireForEffect wrote:Just admit the real truth..you want America to fail..you want America to fall so she can be "taught a lesson"..it brings you joy to hear of US soldiers killed doesn't it? You guys are pathetic and should be ashamed of yourselves. You hate America, you hate Israel and apparently everything else to do with western culture. Just a thought...what has the arab culture given to the world? What has western culture given? Down with western culture! Lets all go back to the 7th century!


I'm am neither a Christian, Jew or Moslem. I don't enjoy hearing of any death - especially utterly pointless ones - perhaps that's what makes me a Liberal in your eyes? And if you really want to enter into a debate about what 'Arab' culture has given the world how about mathematics, medicine, astronomy etc we can do that at length. You do realise that if Charles Martel had been defeated at the Battle Of Tours in AD732 centuries of Christian barbarism would have been avoided and, as a simple extrapolated hypothesis, we'd quite possibly now be travelling to the nearer stars rather than our own moon? Merely because you have fast & unhealthy food which is poisoning your population, expensive & inefficient 100 year old transportation methods which are poisoning your environment & economy, a laughable excuse for a healthcare system in a first world state or even repeated serials of lobotomy inducing Friends does not make you superior from the rest of us barbarians :)
FireForEffect wrote:And of course you are more upset about panties on the head of a terrorist than the beheadings and murder of Americans. More signs of mental disorder.


FFE - are you actually fully aware of what's being done in your name? How would you view the blissful ignorance of a populace willing to tolerate part cessation of their own rights & constitution let alone torture & rape and the murder of thousands in a long term capitalist driven conflict that George calls his 'endless war'? You do know your government, via that imbecile Gonzalez, is playing fast and loose with the definition of torture, kidnapping & secreting people away from the reach of international law and justice? Does any of this that fall under your definition of mental disorder? Without wishing to speak for others seemingly I'd imagine it falls under most of the rest of the worlds scope for such an illness. How exactly are YOU benefiting from the war in Iraq? Do you have more money? Do you feel safer? Is gas cheaper? Is your country now on a more stable democratic footing rather than being run by a small psychotic cabal of cretins who's principle salaries, sometimes called contributions, come from corporate interests? I'd wager no...but then again I'm merely a dumbass liberal ain’t I?
FireForEffect wrote:You say Bush lied to go to war...In doing so, you conveniently overlook the fact that if Bush lied, a long list of liberal icons have also been lying for a very long time, some from before the time he arrived in the Oval Office.
Cool - now we're getting somewhere as you would say.
FireForEffect wrote:Clinton fired cruise missiles and put his faith in what we now know was a corrupt and ineffectual U.N. sanctions regime in a fruitless effort to keep Saddam in a box. Only the blindly partisan, the ignorant and the gullible can subscribe to the belief that Bush — and, somehow, Bush alone — lied about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. I invite you to explain these quotes->
Ineffectual? It killed, according to independent estimates, half a million children in Iraq. A mere small extension of the policy beginning back with Reagan through Bush Snr that cost over a million lives in the Iran/Iraq war of which the US was a major player and proponent. Sorry bud but your countries foreign policy, as decided by a small minority of people/advisors you DO NOT VOTE FOR, sucks the root. Clinton was at least half right - al-Quaeda were in Sudan at that point - before summarily being kicked out and heading for Afghanistan. Bush, tho it pains me to say it, was also half right - he attacked the country that was hiding and giving succour to Bin Laden's group - the same country that offered twice to present him for trial if the US would present the evidence linking the group with 9/11. The US government didn't present any. So, pending the information I hope you'll post to correct this, we currently have no information linking Iraq to 9/11.
FireForEffect wrote:"Urges the President to take all necessary and appropriate actions to respond to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
— Text of Senate Concurrent Resolution 71, Jan. 28, 1998, co-sponsored by Democrats Tom Daschle, Patrick Leahy, Max Cleland, John Kerry and Robert Byrd, among others.
You have the most advanced and secretive weapons programs in the world, indeed your Military currently takes some 45% of your taxes - but you do not welcome inspections of any kind. The US has shown to be more than willing to use these programs, and your taxes, in amoral policies across the globe, supporting evil regimes and dictatorships as and when it suits them and not you.
FireForEffect wrote:"(Iraq) admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability — notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And might I say, UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production."
— Text of President Clinton's address to Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff, Feb. 17, 1998
So did Clinton go round to the pig farm in Crawford and arrest Bush Snr, did he also go round and arrest Rumsfeld - both of whom were the principle figures in selling the first two items on your list to Saddam?
FireForEffect wrote:"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
— Press release from Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., Dec. 16, 1998
Because again as I've stated - the Bush family interests, the Neocons and their assembled CIA/NSA buddies had infiltrated the UN weapons inspections teams in order to expedite Saddams assassination. The Iraqis were well aware of this and tried to keep them away from everything of importance. FYI these are the same people who bugged and bribed the UN in the run up to war - just they didn't completely succeed and had to act unilaterally despite the pretence of some form of coalition to give the impression of legality. One of the reasons that I want Blair in The Hague chained in an orange jumpsuit is because I can assume that Bush, and his friends, are fucking idiots because they've always been - Blair on the other hand, as made clear in the Downing Street Memo's, knew exactly what the WMD situation was and decided to act illegally and in the interests of another nation than the one he was supposed to be governing.
FireForEffect wrote:"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
— From an address by Al Gore to the Commonwealth Club of California, Sept. 23, 2002
Regime change - as made clear in the UN of which the US is a member - is illegal. The US should be kicked out or at the very least submit itself to sanctions.
FireForEffect wrote:"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last four years ... he has continued to build those weapons."
— Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, Oct. 9, 2002
Once again note the sheer pussy whipped verbiage coming from everyone in America - Saddam bad man, Saddam not former employee, Saddam not our man in Baghdad, Saddam not a great weapons export in 80's by concurrent Republican admins, Saddam not CIA asset since 1959. You have strange notions as regards weapons control my friend - someone buys a handgun, shoots someone and it's their fault because you've got numerous bullshit arguments as regards purchasing weapons for self defence. However someone buys chemical weapons from you, aims it with the satellite intel you provided, and it's purely their fault? What in the fooking bejesus did you think they were going to do with it? The US government, your President's father no less, endorsed it and supported it! You really want to make a start in the War On Terror? Then go round and arrest everyone in your country who backed and supported him & National Security Defence Directive 114 that he and Reagan authorised because it was politically expedient, and financially worthwhile, to do so.
FireForEffect wrote:"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years."
— Floor statement of Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Oct. 10, 2002
Absolute and total cobblers - the man was quite clearly either keeping his crack paranoia at bay or attempting to further his career - as Blix stated Hussein hadn't ever had something that could be called a viable nuke program and, realising the efforts involved, had abandoned it in the early '90's. Again your governments conspiracy theory gone wild. In comparison Israel was hiding it's nuclear program for years, purchased from the British and the French, and even put the whistleblower who brought it to the worlds attention in jail for 20 years. US response to a secretive weapons program, nevermind numerous human rights abuses, UN resolutions and international 'death squads' performing assassinations in sovereign states? Absolutely, precisely Fuck All. The Israelis, your allies, even have an extensive spying network inside the US that's being uncovered bit by bit. Again US response? Fuck All.
FireForEffect wrote:"Under Saddam's rule, Iraq has engaged in far-reaching human rights abuses, been a state sponsor of terrorism and has long sought to obtain and develop weapons of mass destruction."
— Statement from the Web site of Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, dated 2002
Yeah and he got the 'demo versions' from the US and promptly cracked them! Human rights abuses? Yeah tens of thousands of them - but human rights abuses are only ever on the US agenda when it's politically expedient to mention them. State sponsor of terrorism? Hmm...partly valid in the sense that he'd give the families of idiot Palestinian suicide bombers $25k and sheltered Abu Nidal's group. That the one's I know of. These are the sum of huge links to a shadowy world of international terrorism? Looks pretty crap compared to you guys I have to say.
FireForEffect wrote:"I consider the prospect of a nuclear-armed Saddam Hussein who can threaten not only his neighbors, but the stability of the region and the world, a very serious threat to the United States."
— Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York at a Jan. 22, 2003, press conference."
See Rockerfeller. Now that I've finished 'bloiviating', lol, again FFE I'll ask you politely for the official published facts linking 9/11, al-Quaeda & Iraq please? If it's any help there should be a downloadable PDF from the White House .gov site.

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Post by charvel-floyd » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:54 pm

Nod wrote:again FFE I'll ask you politely for the official published facts linking 9/11, al-Quaeda & Iraq please? If it's any help there should be a downloadable PDF from the White House .gov site.
Just registered for this BB, and stumbled across this scientology-like thread. Anyhoo...

I agree with Nod's questions but probably not his politics. Having said that, 9-11 played well to the media and the emotions of the American people. WMDs did the same. The complex mix of post-WW 1 blunders, oil business and perceived threats emanating out of Iran (at times), Iraq (at times), and other shadowy groups is a tough sell.

I have not doubt these were calculated moves from very bright people. They went with the 9-11 Iraq-Afghanistan connection. A relationship that very few would poo-poo. And hence, got a thumb up to mobilize the troops and rearrange how things get done in the Middle East.

I support the war. However I never found the media packaged rationale to be very convincing.

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